Nadia said...
............
If Gilad is still friends with all of you, pass him your editorial and ask for his opinion, my bet is that he would say: start from scratch and throw this ‘editorial’ in the garbage, armchair critics…
uprooted Palestinian said...
Thanks Nadia,
I would say,
How easy it is to be WHEELCHAIR critics!Hopefully there are still good Guys saying Spade is Spade.
8:50 AM, January 14, 2010
How easy it is to be armchair critics!
fourthreichisrael on January 9th, 2010 at 22:42:
Pontificating “shoulds” – while the subtle message is one of criticism of George Galloway and the Viva Palestina convoy, as well as the Gaza Freedom March.
As for Egypt’s complicity with Israel: don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.
Egypt, must be exposed for its wall of shame it is building with American funds – that will be yet another war crime extension of the Apartheid wall – chocking off Gaza even more, by starvation, lack of water, medical supplies, baby formula, blankets, clothing, books and other educational supplies, etc…As well, Egypt is pouring sea water into the bread tunnels that are the only means of access to flour since the population is so overcrowded, it’s next to impossible to grow food for 1 and a half million people who are in a walled in open air prison. The sea water is not only killing people who risk their lives to attempt too gain access for basic survival needs, it’s killing Palestinians living in Gaza by starvation by flooding the bread lines (tunnels) with sea water – until, its wall of shame is completed, after which, starvation will be the main ‘menu’ in Gaza…
Coinciding, with building the the wall of shame, is the refusal on the part of Egypt to allow the convoy into Gaza to deliver desperately needed basics of life.Israel, has most countries in its back-pocket as little lap-dogs who are trained, or rather, bought off by the United States of Israel and Israel and wealthy Zionists/and/or/Zionist-Corporations to do the bidding of Zionist agendas; the most horrid one is its delusional, imperialistic ambitions of a “Greater Israel”.
Israel, is not contained in its undeclared borders, the only “country” in the world with undeclared borders – all for the long-term goal and strategy of the “Greater Israel’; it also extends around the world – not only into the USA, into South America, Arab Nations, etc…
I see you proposing that only Israel take any blame for the continuation of its homicidal ethnic cleaning policy toward the Palestinians. I believe this to be an error in judgment: every country, political party, lobby, etc… must also be exposed for its collusion and corruption by shacking up with the devil.
That devil is Israel and Egypt must have consequences for its collusion and oppression of Palestinians; let the chips fall where they may, the world needs to see the vast, undue influence that Israel has over other countries and their polices toward Palestinians, and in this case, we are speaking of Gaza.
Even Norman Finkelstein has said he does not support Hamas, however, that may well not be how he really feels, it’s just the nature of being in the spotlight and wanting to have your voice not be silenced. Example: the terror storm that former President Jimmy Carter, was put through – with meat-grinder bullying over his book “Peace not Apartheid”, shows to all who desperately want to do their part to help the Palestinians, and Israelis as well, that saying the truth is often the end of any future endeavors to promote peace and Justice for Palestinians.
As for the alleged pilfering of funds, it is completely unprofessional to do so without a reference and proof; without evidence, it’s just gossip and speculation. That may all have been created by the Israeli lobby!
This is a time to say a big thank you to all the good people who gave so much to not only reach suffering Gaza, they also brought awareness to the complex nature of Zionist manipulation and collusion, surprising to everyone, since no one expected Egypt to act as it did – with utter moral bankruptcy.
I for one, had idealistic notions about Egypt… the pyramids, the Nile, its rich heritage – filled with images and metaphors of the country that gave us ISIS and other mythologies that are enchanting.
It’s time to wake up from idealism and see things as they are: Israel is controlling countries by proxy by their lobbies, and perhaps – threats and intimidation; after all, what country wants to become the next Iraq?
If I remember correctly, and I think I do: Egypt, like Iraq, is part of what Israel (in its delusional thinking and grandiosity) considers the “Greater Israel”, so, in that sense we are exposing Israel by exposing Egypt since Israel by proxy is calling the shots.
We have all pointed fingers and put blame on the USA for its collusion with Israel, what’s wrong with pointing out other collaborators who are also complicit in Israel’s war crimes?
There is nothing politically or morally incorrect about exposing the tentacles of the spider (Israel) and its complex web that most people had not heard of until recently.
Awareness, is always beneficial and I disagree that all the focus went onto Egypt, the focus is on Egypt’s collusion and complicity in Israel’s genocide of Gazans, thus, putting the focus right back on Israel!
This will be and unpopular thing to say and most likely rude, however, it is how I perceive your editorial: this piece of pontificating – laced with underlying messages of blaming the good folks – would not have been published had Gilad Atzmon still been at Palestine Think Tank.If Gilad is still friends with all of you, pass him your editorial and ask for his opinion, my bet is that he would say: start from scratch and throw this ‘editorial’ in the garbage, armchair critics…
Update:
Mary Rizzostine, thecutter, needs your attention
River to Sea
Uprooted Palestinian
Another Good Comment on another Wheelchaired Patroit.
ReplyDeleteBilal
What do you expect Haniyeh to say? The people of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria support Palestinian resistance and Hamas. Obviously, the governments are a different story. This is politics and sometimes you have to soften your rhetoric and look for a solution - thats what Haniyeh is doing. I dont think he believes that Egypt and Saudi are going to help Palestinians acheive their rights but he is leaving his options open - this is a clever strategy.
Your constant description of Ismail Haniyeh as Habila is also offensive to the many Muslims and Arabs that see this man as a great leader who is humble, principled and steadfast. Obviously, you can say what you want but I doubt you'll get very far.
UP is a censor!
ReplyDeleteThis great! So, just go to PTT to see the original comment that he is SO AFRAID TO PRINT! He of course doesn't want the truth to be out there.
WHAT a joker!
I just want to clarify something...
ReplyDeleteUP, are you suggesting that Mary is ANTI-Hamas? And are you claiming this because she questions Galloway's wisdom in publicising money given to Hamas, due to the fact that the people who contributed that money are now likely to be persecuted by the US govt, possibly even detained?
Please clarify.
Well MISTER CENSOR! Didn't like the revelations, did you? That Gilad Atzmon agreed with Haitham, that he doesn't know you from Adam and his interaction with you is just the mailer he sends to his people on his mailing list, along, of course with his "disapproval" of your smear campaign and his being taken off of PTT and NOT his leaving. But those who come to knock on PTT will read all of that.
ReplyDeleteRight now, let me respond to your stupidity here!
Q: "UP, are you suggesting that Mary is ANTI-Hamas?"
A: I would say yes, as far as I know, she supports PFLP, and can't think out of the secular box.
Mary: well, you are obviously quite dim and as a matter of fact, know nothing about me, about how I think or what I even believe in. I do of course personally support PFLP, and since I am not a Palestinian living where I can vote, that means JACK. However, I ALSO support Hamas, and you can see it if you read the site! I have written volumes on them, including the paper about the myths circulating regarding Hamas. It was published in 8 languages and on hundreds of sites, including sites that are Hamas affiliated. I was thanked for it by persons in the party and they have invited me to be a guest to meet and interview them. So far, have had to turn it down, but one day will be happy to accept the offer. As you might guess, it's not easy to "get away with" something like that, and your idol Gilad never even went so far, know why? In Europe and in the USA, they are on the blacklist and I am sure he would like to continue his freedom of movement. He supports them "as the Palestinian choice", I go a bit farther. I was the translator and circulated the Recognise Resistance campaign to get them and Hez off the blacklist. What did YOU do, mister Secular Box?
Q: And are you claiming this because she questions Galloway's wisdom in publicising money given to Hamas, due to the fact that the people who contributed that money are now likely to be persecuted by the US govt, possibly even detained?
A: No, not because of that. I participated in debates at PTT and in both she acted as the lawyer of satan,
Mary: You really don't know how to read, do you, UP? I defend my own positions, and what are they? Defending resistance. When there is to disagree with someone, I do it, no matter who they are. There was Gilad telling me to not disagree in public with him, reserving that right to himself, but I have disagreed with everyone there and know what, they are able to take it!
more follows, censor allowing, naturally!
UP: defding Hamas Bashers (Haitham and sami Jadallaf).
ReplyDeleteMary: again, you are out of your mind. "Hamas bashers".... would you like to see what the editor of Redress wrote to me the other day when we discussed my paper on Hamas, which he thought was too full of praise for them? Here it is: - On Hamas, yes, at the moment it's the better of two evils – it does not yet suffer from the corruption and complete lack of principle that permeates Fatah. But let us not get carried away romanticizing about Hamas. They are first and foremost and Islamist party for whom creating an Islamic state is a primary goal -- as important for them as ridding Palestinians of the Israeli occupation. As a Muslim, I have no hesitation in saying that an Islamic state would be a disaster for Palestinians (Muslims and Christians), other Arabs and other Muslims. And it would be a calamity for Palestinian women. Ordinary people who support the principle of an Islamic state do not know what it means in practice.
So, where does this leaves us now? I think that tactically we have to support Hamas's struggle against Israel but not the goal of an Islamic state. At the moment, there are no alternative Palestinian parties -- the PFLP, PFLP-GC and DFLP are too small and irrelevant to make any difference to the occupation, and they don't have enough support among ordinary Palestinians. -
Put that in your pipe and smoke it UP; or are you going to start a flame war with Mohammed and Redress too???
last part follows (censor allowing, naturally!!)
UP: She repeated/blessed Haitham's Claims and Egypt,
ReplyDeleteMary: I blessed things? I said Haitham was right about the problem of the Westerners thinking they could agree on a route with Egypt in Europe and once there not do it and claim that Egypt changed the rules. This was entirely wrong and deceptive and there are three people dead on account of it, and not only, Egypt tightened its grip, which was predictable! NICE strategy!
UP: Zionist Propaganda on Hamas allowing Drug trafficking, terrorists smuggling,
Mary: do you know how to read? the stuff about the trafficking came from Sources quoting people from Hamas who were upset about the Salafitic infiltrates. You have the links! Why do you refuse to read the truth if it clashes with your cartoon-like image of the world??? I did not justify the Egyptian block, nor their wall, but I said that Hamas even killed people (all in an Arabic source which you and Bilal were given!) who were involved in drug trafficking between Egypt and Israel. Sorry if you don't know how to look at facts and information!!
UP: Justifying the Siege of Gaza as long as Hamas contol Gaza.
Mary: YOU REALLY have your head up your ARSE! I have been campaigning against the siege probably as long if not longer than you have, and I find NO reason to justify it and have written so on hundreds of occasions! If you break the siege, you go and break it, you don't make DEALS!
UP: Denied Hamas Victory in foiling all the Israli War goals.
Mary: huh?
(more will follow, to the good graces of Mr Censor)
UP: AS for Galloway, she and her fellows claim that he has another Agenda.
ReplyDeleteMary: he may have another agenda. He is not favourable to Arab nationalism, nor does he presume that the next leader of the movement has got to be Palestinian or even Arab. This looks apparent. It may not be so. He may have other interests as well. In fact, time will tell....
UP: They hate his other agenda. The Agenda of Supporting Resistance.
Mary: oh heroic UP! How wonderful you are the ONLY one who supports the Resistance! You are the ultimate joker!!
UP: I support that agenda, and can't immagine that he could have done it without the great support from Turkey, Syria, and I would say Iran.
Mary: "he", yes, your hero does all the work, of course, with anyone but Arabs!
UP: I wonder, why you are so sure that the people who contributed money are now likely to be persecuted by the US govt, possibly even detained?
Mary: Because, if you know something about law, which Galloway should, you will realise that THE DEAL HE MADE with the VP USA people was to "deliver goods, not cash, to an NGO" and he did this because according to United States law, any party (person or org) donating to any party on the Blacklist is violating the law and will be held accountable. He is aware that organisations and individuals stressed the importance of this. They do not agree with their law, but they are aware of the dire consequences of violating it, and these were the terms. Galloway obviously obtained many contributions, in the name of individuals and orgs and he gave his word that he would abide by their request. Since he made sure he handed MONEY over, ON CAMERA to Hamas and not to an NGO as per accord, what happened? Well, let me tell you what happened, the next day two orgs in California were investigated for violation of the law of financing terrorist orgs, one of them was closed down and still others are now being investigated. If you don't think that some people are really angry, you are wrong. So, you see, one should never make agreements with someone if they aren't going to respect their part of the agreement so as to avoid terrible consequences! Did all the money go to the people that were promised it? Did the MRI get bought? We read on twitter of the 47 "brand new vehicles" and some other things... makes you kind of wonder what is going on, and transparency counts, even if it IS filthy lucre.
UP: Do you really think there is a big differance between Galloway's publicising or not puplicising money given to Hamas.
Mary: uhm, yes. Read the above. There is a very big difference and those who live in countries where this could be a criminal activity know the difference.
UP: Hamas is the elected Authority in Palestine, and FACT on Ground in Gaza.
Mary: DUH. Talk about saying the obvious. But, again, if you are a smart person, you will be able to support the people of Gaza, the elected Authority as well and do it in a way that will not endanger those who will and have contributed funding. You can imagine that collecting funds in the USA after the debacle has been more than complicated. All to the detriment of the Palestinian people.
Hope these answers will be published MR Censor!
funny guy, I almost started to give you some credit, even though you censored yesterday's comment. But then I read this idiocy.
ReplyDeleteUP: my, "Queen" you shall never drag me into your wars with others.
Mary: then what's your smear campaign against me all about then? someone disagree with you and you tear them to smithereens!
UP: BTW, who is Mohammed??
Mary: the editor of Redress who you "dissect and attack" below. That quote you tear apart is HIS opinion. Not mine.
UP: My "Queen" All your answers are already published, by Mister "Censor" who never acted as a Police of thought,
Mary: not yesterday's! It's up on PTT. NOT here! where you have an edited version. Look, your right to do it, I don't say no, but don't label someone with the label you yourself deserve.
UP: Enjoy your fellow contributors
Mary: indeed, people can say what they want. None of us are required to agree with it and we express when we do, like civil persons.
UP: My "Queen":
Thanks for revealing your true color without "hesitation.
all the rest is by the guy who runs Redress, it's not me, so deal with it.
""As a Muslim, I have no hesitation in saying that an Islamic state would be a disaster for Palestinians (Muslims and Christians), other Arabs and other Muslims. And it would be a calamity for Palestinian women. Ordinary people who support the principle of an Islamic state do not know what it means in practice"
Thanks for providing a direct answer to mundosonh"
My comments on your statement are as follows:
You are a big liar: You are not a Muslim. I guess behind that black eye glasses we have an ugly Jew.
Mary: oooh, that's nice!
oh, and you ask if you'd get a chance at Rizzostein to be smeared on the front page?
ReplyDeleteno, honestly, for as much as you seem to be interested in me, I don't think that others are and I don't think your flame war tactic by using strawman fallacies ALWAYS with other people's quotes is really something I want to be bothered with.
So, no. Won't do a flame war on PTT against you.
Hard to admit you are wrong, isn't it, UP? So you end with some silly little insult that I can't understand. never mind. It's not important.
ReplyDeleteglad you are finished with me in your little flame war crusade, (but of course you aren't) because hiding behind yourself and "others" and not addressing ANY of my own (MY OWN) comments doesn't really work to get anything done except make you feel like you are pleasing somebody who frankly, isn't pleased. Everyone who wants to follow your flame war can and they can see that all you do is attack others and get little interesting discourse out of it. You use the quotes of others to attack me, and it only undermines any credibility you might have had.
wish you good luck because you probably are well meaning in your efforts, you just seem to think that the way to do it is to shoot down anyone who gets under your skin or says anything you don't like.