Why I am not writing on Palestine Think Tank anymore
PeaceMonger asked
“…Nahida, what happened to your article from last year on Palestine Think Tank? ”
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In April 2010, after years of association, contribution and strong support for Palestine Think Tank (PTT), I took the painful decision to stop contributing to it anymore, and to ask that my articles be removed. I could no longer be associated with it, for reasons I explained to Mary Rizzo, PTT’s editor. To answer to PeaceMonger and to whomever may wonder why I vanished from PTT, and also to shed a light on a pernicious problem inside PTT, please let me share with you excerpts of my letter to PTT’s editor:
Start quote: (links added)
“The clarity of vision and the unconditional support for Palestine with its all shades of resistance -that we were used to and were in love with- is what made me a fervent reader of PTT and a passionate admirer of you and your work.
Lately, however, something has changed; I have been very disturbed by the new direction and new political orientation that PTT is taking:
* Attacking the stronghold of Palestinian resistance Hamas, tainting its integrity and participating in spreading unfounded accusations and slanderous myths of corruption, treason, terrorism and drug dealings. (even accusing it of illegitimacy, and equating it with “israel”).* Smearing the Palestinian society at large, at a moment when they need every drop of support, by focusing on some criminal acts by certain Palestinians and tainting the whole society because of such acts of criminality; it’s not a matter of denying the crimes and wrong doings of few leaders and some members of the society, it’s not a matter neither of silencing the necessary opposition against corruption and self criticism, but rather, it’s the timing and the and the failure to calculate the detrimental effect of over-emphasising such issues, on the Palestinian cause. I view all this as fatal strategic error
- http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/07/25/sami-jamil-jadallah-what-is-wrong-with-the-palestinians-a-whole-lot/
- http://palestinethinktank.com/2010/03/11/over-13-honor-killings-in-two-months-in-palestine/
* It has become obvious, that PTT has fallen under the influence of a tiny clique who denies, misses or dismisses the fact that Arab (i.e. also Palestinian) identity is deeply rooted and anchored in Islam as a culture and way of life. Even Christian Arabs and other minorities living in Arab countries, are more influenced by Islam’s customs and social life, than by westernized Euro-centrism.
* This group pretends to be representative of all Palestinians, they gave themselves the right to speak on our behalf without the consent of all Palestinians, which I and many other Palestinian contest and fiercely object to.
* This ultra-westernized tiny circle now influencing and steering PTT sees the USA, NATO and its allies as saviours of Palestine, it sees and promotes racist ideas that Arabs, Muslims and Palestinians are unqualified to sorting their own problems; their societies are corrupt, backwards and dysfunctional.
- http://palestinethinktank.com/2010/01/03/haitham-sabbah-surround-me-with-songs-of-deliverance-crossing-the-borders-of-solidarity/#comment-14384
- http://palestinethinktank.com/2010/01/03/haitham-sabbah-surround-me-with-songs-of-deliverance-crossing-the-borders-of-solidarity/#comment-14266
* I see that this change of PTT feeds the zionists propaganda and serve it’s hasbara machine, it offers them precious gifts that justifies their self-promoting leadership as a necessity for peace, progress and stability in the Middle-East
………… I can not afford to be associated with the new direction that PTT has been taking, which is extremely detrimental to the Palestinian cause.”
End quote.
One of the people I allude to is Kawther Salam now co-editor of PTT, who between a few good articles, often inserts massive deconstruction and undermining of the Palestinian support, literally peddling zionist manipulation, smear campaigns and hasbara.
With a “Palestinian” like Kawther Salam –co-editor on PTT- who needs Hasbara:
Start quotes:
“The Palestinian civil society is sick of the so-called “Hamas authority”, the radical Palestinian movement which distorts the face of Islam, and which has turned the holy mission of the Palestinian struggle into a struggle for their own pockets and unknown foreign agendas.”
“We, all the Palestinians, are sick of both of you..”
“…..you turned yourselves into the puppets of Israel, USA, Khaled Mishal, and other foreign countries and interests”
“also remind the President-in-dreams, Ismael Haniyeh, and his unknown gangs of paid thugs and donkeys, that his so-called “presidency” over Gaza is illegal, and that he is guilty of the death and the murders of hundreds of the innocent Palestinians in Gaza, just like the Israeli are guilty of murders, terrorism and other crimes.
You are responsible for the death of hundreds of sick Palestinians in the same way the Israeli criminals who imposed the siege on Gaza and denied many patients the basic rights of medical treatment.
Your illusory presidency is responsible for the death of many poor people trying to bring in needed goods in the tunnels under the earth of Gaza. Your illusory presidency is responsible and guilty of torture of many prisoners detained illegally. Your illusory presidency is responsible for the famine and the poverty in Gaza just like the criminal Israeli regime.”
“Most of the Hamas militants, just like their Fatah counterparts, are criminals and extremists. Both organizations are infiltrated by the Israeli intelligence system”
“Both the Palestinian Authority and Hamas regimes are illegal and have no real legitimacy…”
“Both Fatah and Hamas have lost any claims to legitimacy…… Both factions are infiltrated by jewish zionist interests…………….. they have achieved nothing but to disgrace themselves. They have no more legitimacy than israel.”
Kawther Salam on May 20th, 2010 at 12:47:
***********************************************
In contrast here are the views of Kawther Salam about the society of zionist occupier and her “cute” soldiers from her own diary:
***********************************************
“My Israeli friends helped me always to survive, and “DINA LEE” is still responsible about all of my expenses.”
Kawther Salam, monday, 1st.April,2002
“I remembered the Jewish family I lived with them in Tel-Aviv………
and the small child I left him there, I should be with “Romi” instead to be in the middle of the garbage.” 15th,April 2002
(btw; by “the middle of the garbage” she means the city of AL-KHALIL/ HEBRON)
“The soldiers asked me about my political point of view, we talked together like human being, I respect all what they told me” 16th, April 2002
“During the Intifadah, my people made reverse 50 years against women”, Monday, 3rd June 2002
“I called my Israeli friends for a help, I don’t have money any more.” !st, July 2002
“I looked like the Israelis, like the human being” !st, July 2002
“I don’t care if “Tall”, “Sharon” or “Arafat”, will be the winner through
this “Election”.
“I will not be sad, if it will be a “Jewish State ….. then we can lead the all Middle East!!….We can lead all the Arab countries, lead the Middle East “Economic“, We will be more strong, more …and more!!” 2ed, July 2002
“my Israeli friends, who give me security and confidence in their homes……………. I am part of their daily life.” 7Th. October 2001
“The evening brought a pleasant surprise. Two gentle soldiers who acted politely and even said they were ashamed of their friends.” 9th.& 10th. October 2001
“How could I teach the military commanders serving in Hebron, Colonel DrorWineburg, Colonel Amon Cohen, and Lieutenant Hartzel to overcome racism, discrimination, and intolerance?………………………….. These officers are still victimized” Friday, October 12, 2001
“The government corrupts the soldiers today, and corrupts the Israeli civil society for the future, just for political reasons”
“Lieutenant Hartzel is a good neighbour for my family in Haifa”Friday, October 12, 2001
“I got the news of murdering the Israeli minister Rehavam Zeevi……It was a bad news like all other bad news I received about murdering Palestinians““Both of us, Palestinians and israelis, are living a big “drama” of daily killing in a close, bloody reveange circle…..Looking at this circle it might be difficult to trace the the first acts that cause revenge that caused revange……………………. The resistane of “non violent” Intifada is Legitimate. But killing of innocent Israeli should not be acceptable in this struggle.”
Wednesday, 17th of October 2001
” I love my Israeli friends and really enjoyed the time together. We have the same dreams “just, peace and love”
“after few days in Israel with my good friends, the sea and the fun, i feel that I miss “MY SOLDIERS” who remainde me always my duity to proclaim how bad is the occupation.” 20th of October 2001
“These soldiers and this commander are not responsible to be in the security duties.
They are children who do not know better and so are forced to humiliate ………… I also feel victorious and powerfull with my Israeli friends. Many friends.”
23rd of October 2001
“most Israeli citizens are good people and they are victimized”
“Even the soldiers who harassed me, I am always forgiving them because I don’t have any reason to hate other people.” Wednesday, October 31, 2001
“I’m willing to have peace, life for everybody, in this region, including my nice soldiers who harassed me and caused psychological pain for me…..These cute soldiers should return back to their families and live their life” Thursday, November 1, 2001
“the officer………………… He came with other soldiers. He looked different than before. he smiled like a child. I tried to turn my face to the other side. But the officer walked and approached me.….He came to say to me good-buy. He decided to make reconciliation with me before I leave.…..We talked together about nice things”
“We were talking like friends. Other soldiers were serounding us very quietly.”
“It was amazing meeting. The same soldiers who used to harasse me im my appartement and the streetcame to say to “L’hitrot” (good-buy). There was a sade expression on their faces. Even on the face of the officer who said to me the day before that he will be very galde if I will leave Hebron.
“I asked myself what happened. He was sade and not happy. I decided to cut this love and hate, attractive and rejecting meeting. I left them.”
“I understood that we are human beings that need love instead of hate”Friday, 2nd November 2001.
“the officer. He was listening to me carefully with respect…
I told him why I decided to arrive the airport drunk. Because I’m not fond of alcohol and I never got drunk before. The officer said, nothing was against me and he shook hands with me and apologized with respect.” Monday, March 04
“It was very clear that the soldiers were harassing me as a result of their commanders instructions” 22nd March 2002
“Colonel Igal Sharon was a nice commander of the ” IDF ” soldiers in Hebron. He used to deal with all of the human stories I was published in the newspapers…….And while I cuased alot of criticizem noise for Colonel Igal Sharon in the media, he was a nice Commander in Hebron”
“Colonel Barokh Najjar was very nice colonel with me either, while I criticized him alot in the media and I caused noise noise for him, But he was respecting me“
“Why nobody interesting to hear, talk or write about the nice stories between the Palestinians and the Israelis under this terrible war??”
End quotes
Just a few observations regarding Kawther Salam’s diary and narrative:
-Her relentless attack on Hamas, Fatah and the entire Palestinian society is cold-hearted, callous and shocking, in contrast with her warm feelings, gentle praise and admiration for her “victimized” “peace-loving” “israeli friends” and “cute, child-like soldiers”
-She spells Nakba like zionist do: Naqbah, no educated Arab would write it with Q, because it would cease to mean what it means
- She said she doesn’t know where her “refugee” parents came from originally, which is rather bizarre for a Palestinian refugee!
-In her diary; she never mentioned Palestinian friends, it’s always “israeli” friends or soldier friends
-She claims she was “forced” to leave Palestine, when in fact she begged and worked hard and with the help of her “israeli friends” until she was finally allowed to leave (according to her diary)
- Her pet animal is called “Zahav”, a name no Palestinian would choose by any stretch of imagination, it’s a Hebrew name!
- She also collaborated on three films for Israeli television stations- She had magically managed to make unprecedented quantum leaps in writing, from some who can barely construct a simple sentence in English in 2002
- To someone who writes complex sentences and “deep” political analysis with “twists”, in a matter of weeks!
- To someone who received Hellman/Hammett Grant “in recognition of her courage in the face of political persecution” just months after arrival in Austria!
- And for more quantum leap jumping and record-breaking; she has been given asylum in three weeks!
- There is even an infantile blog to promote her, laughable, but not in a funny way, her “talents” are praised, she is promoted as a “gifted” writer and an “inspiration” to all Palestinian women- Finally, I would like to share one of the “gifted” Kawther’s poems:
Quote:
“I’m counting the sky stars, hopefully to see him!! Talking to the birds flying, hopefully to meet him!! Asking the sea waves, the zephyr hopefully to talk to him!! Irrigating all flowers, hopefully to smell him!!
Day and night are equal!!
The hour hand pass slowly!!
I’m waiting and waiting…
They killed my hope…
They killed my dreams…
They killed my feeling…
They killed humanity…
They killed and killed…
But tomorrow is coming…
Tomorrow should coming!!
Tomorrow I’ll dance and sing…
I’ll smile and laugh…
Drink and drunk…
Kiss and hug…
Fly and love…
Tomorrow I’ll meet him!!
I’ll get my Freedom!!
Freedom to live…
Freedom to love…
Freedom to talk…
Freedom to travel…
Freedom to have an ID.
Freedom, and freedom and freedom…
I’m dreaming daily…
Dreaming and dreaming…
But I woke up…!”
End Quote
In conclusion, whatever is the motivation of those who infiltrated PTT, whether simply hatred and contempt to their people and culture, or utter foolishness, or something far more sinister like for example perception management, the result is the same: their articles and comments contain poison, a poison extremely detrimental to the Palestinian cause at this moment in time, precisely when public opinion just begins to see Palestine and Palestinians in a more favourable light.
I can not be associated with such smear campaigns waged against the entire Palestinian society, leadership, people and culture.
.
21 comments:
Hi Nahida, I followed the link here from your post on the Think Tank. Thanks for all that. I've been wondering myself if they were the same people, or if they'd been surreptitiously replaced. I get daily newsletters from PST and Sabbah so I only have time to read the occasional piece that takes my fancy. So I haven't read much of Kawther. Those excerpts from her are appalling. But unfortunately in the same tenor as a lot of Sabbah's recent output. And there's more than you mentioned. Sabbah has shown an increasing tendency to post genuinely anti-semitic, anti-communist nazi propaganda drawn from white nationalist hate sites. Gilad Atzmon too, unfortunately - it may just be ignorance, letting their enthusiasm carry them beyond their reading into very dark territory. In fact, I feel sure that's the case with Gilad who seems a genuine and nice guy; but Sabbah as you say has been showing some general dark tendencies - just doesn't seem like the same person. I don't know how Mary feels about it. She stays much the same. By the way, is this anything to do with why Gilad left the site? Tony Greenstein (no harm if you don't know him) says that he was thrown off the site for disrespecting Moshe Machover. I just found that unlikely. I still read Gilad's site but there's no comment boxes.
Anyway, best wishes. I'll read your blog sometimes. I don't use my real name - I'm white, male and Scottish, in case you wondered.
.
Dear Lafaytte
Thank you for your comment
There is a lot that has changed in PTT that does not smell good at all
Last night, I too have tried to post this link on PTT but it was deleted within minutes of posting, then they blocked me, I am not able to post anything anymore
I was an avid supporter, but when the line of PTT began to change and they started publishing dubious and divisive material; slandering resistance movements and attacking genuine supporters like Viva Palestina, and Iran while at the same time defending "israeli" allies like Egypt I had to leave
http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/12/29/egypt-approves-gaza-freedom-march-passage-viva-palestina-blunders-paperwork-and-blames-egypt/#comment-14148
Also, because of the highly suspicious nature of Kawther salam’s articles (in which she persists in attacking the Palestinian society as a whole as well as the resistance) I did an extensive research about her, and what I found was very disturbing as you can see from my article
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Hello Lafayette
I decided to keep quiet about the reasons that led me to leave PTT because I do not think that this movement needs more conflicts. However, as it seems the political line that was taken by PTT had been exposed and it is down to the people out there to judge whether they like it or not.
I do believe that a resistance movement should be able to live in peace with pluralism. I accept the differences between PTT and myself with respect. However, I can only say that like Nahida, at a certain point, I didn't want any political or intellectual affiliation with PTT. I asked PTT to remove all my posts. So they did. End of story.
Mr Lafayette, i do not ve the energy or the time to take care of comment blog on my site. As you may know my papers are published all over the net. I myslef try to post my articles here in UP. If you want to comment on my ideas and to participate in a lively discussion you can find many places to do so including UP. You can also do it on my facebook page.
Re Machover, I didn't hear from him or about him for long time. I am very happy about it. As I said many time before, i do not know whether i have ever liberated a single pls, but i certainly did one thing, I have manged to expose a network of Sayanim and Zionist fig leaf within the Pls solidarity movement.
I am very proud of myself. 10 years ago they were at the core of the discourse, nowadays, they aren't even marginal.
The Tide has Changed !!!
Peace Gilad
Thanks Gilad. I don't trust Facebook - maybe I'm just too old for that stuff. I mean to get to one of your gigs sometime. Keep up the good work.
Cool, what country are you in... i will get to you , we play all over :)
I know what you mean about face book, i do not understand it at all
However you also wrote:
"Sabbah has shown an increasing tendency to post genuinely anti-semitic, anti-communist nazi propaganda drawn from white nationalist hate sites."
What do you mean by
"genuinely anti-semitic"?
Is it about the Jewish race or ethnicity? i doubt it. He probably opposes Jewish ideology which is totally legitimate. Israel is the Jewish state and its crimes are committed in the name of the Jewish people. Moreover, Zionism is the only Jewish secular philosophy available. Hence, Israeli crimes are the true reflection of Jewish ideology whatsoever!!
Also, what is wrong in being "anti-communist"? Is it categorically wrong or is it just politically wrong? I saw Hitham publication re the holodomor. I supported it!!! It was the biggest crime of the 20th century and we know who stood behind it.... Yuri Slezkin calls them the 'willing executioners'
If you have a problem with an argument you have to present a counter argument. This is how i see it.
I am happy to mention once again that the hegemony of the Jewish left in this movement is subject to historians. This movement is now adopting a universal humanist stand. This is why we are growing by the minute. We do not need mediators and (blue&white) comisars who tell us what is right and who is wrong.
True liberation is primarily a liberation of the spirit...
I'm in London, Gilad. But I've got serious health problems which limit my mobility. I can still get about, but I can't just 'nip out' to a gig.
I looked back here because I thought I should make it clear that I support about 95% of what you write - if I don't agree with it all, I feel at least that it should be talked about.
' Real anti-semitism' to me is just a species of bigotry i.e. as someone ( a jew, I believe) put it neatly, in the case of the jews, being more prejudiced against them than they deserve. I recall Mary Rizzo saying that there were whole areas of discussion, pertinently re jewish group behaviour, that (loosely) were being left to the far-right because 'the left' had ruled them out of bounds, out of inverted racist philosemitism ( probably arising from the fact that Marxism in the West, as you often point out,became practically a jewish academic cottage-industry). I agree with that. I've looked at some of these white nationalist, and 'paleocon' sites to see what they say, and it's a bit of a jumble - they don't discriminate between what's supported by evidence, and what's just 'on message' true or not. I came across a very acute assessment of this word view the other day. I've been accused on some web discussions of being someone called ' Rowan Berkeley' who seems to have ired those who scream 'denier! anti-semite' a lot, and who they maintain is a nazi. I'd never heard of him, but I've now found his blog 'niqnaq' which is really pretty good. I'm coming to the point, bear with me. Anyway, he seems very balanced and very articulate. It was he who talked about the worldview of the paleocons as being characterised by a 'foreshortening' (not sure that's the best word) of perspective when it comes to everything outside the old Republican Party, whereby everything not GOP melded into an interlinked New World Order conspiracy - jews, masons, the Bolshevik revolution, trade uions, civil rights... you name it. It's really just an incoherent fantasy world, often verging on science fiction (like the nazi occultists), a lot of it coming from the same source - a series of books from decades ago by one Anthony Sutton - you know, ' Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution' and many others. I must say I've never read Sutton first-hand (his books are quite expensive) but I don't get the impression he is too bothered about hard evidence.
In an area that's so censored and 'out of bounds' it's tempting to give writers the benefit of the doubt - to wonder if there's some evidence that they can't get at because they're being obstructed by 'powerful forces'. But 'giving them the benefit of the doubt' is exactly what we must not do. THAT'S real anti-semitism, or racism - when you start believing things not supported by evidence because you want them to be true, err consistently to one side as David Irving was correctly found to have done ( he should never have brought that libel action).
So, let me say as diplomatically as possible (and please don't think I'm being patronising) , when you're in territory that so far has rarely been visited except by such rightists, there's a danger that their view of things can start seeping into your peripheral vision, and that some of those views can slip unnoticed and unexamined into your own perspective. Proceed with caution, but not TOO much because I value your energy and enthusiasm!
As to the Holodomor, well that was ONE of the things that jarred. I remember posting on this when it cropped up on the think tank. I referred you to Mark Tauger's 'the Carl Beck Papers', available to read online, but you might have to be affiliated to some academic institution to access them; or you could try this, available for download for $3.90 (maybe only in the US)- I've just found it so I can't vouch for it, but I'm sure it's as much as you need
http://tinyurl.com/37gghkl
FAMINE OF 19211922: An entry from Macmillan Reference USA's Encyclopedia of Russian History [HTML] (Digital)
~ MARK B. TAUGER (Author)
And also (you'll need access to a good library, or a LOT of money )- http://tinyurl.com/3z73hw
The Years of Hunger: Soviet Agriculture, 1931-1933 (The Industrialization of Soviet Russia) (Vol 5) (Hardcover)
~ R. W. Davies (Author), Stephen G. Wheatcroft (Author)
Quote from a review " Although there are only a few pages dedicated to refuting alternative explanations of the famine, this book serves to utterly destroy right wing (the famine was deliberate) and left wing (it was caused by reactionary saboteurs) myths about the famine. There is no evidence of an intentional famine at all, and the book recounts the serious attempts of the state to help mitigate and eliminate the famine. The authors even quote a personal correspondence with Robert Conquest in which he concedes (contrary to what he got famous for saying for decades) that the famine wasn't intentional. While only a few Ukrainian nationalist cranks hold this view, the book clearly destroys the idea of a famine concentrated only or overwhelmingly in the Ukraine. They show that 5.5-6.5M died in the famine, rather than some higher estimates. "
For PENAL deaths under Stalin, really the ONLY thing to read is this paper ( thankfully quite digestible; it used to be free online, but now again you pretty much have to be affiliated to an academic institution to access it, apart from the first page) - it says everything that there's evidence to support about ALL the questions):
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2166597
Victims of the Soviet Penal System in the Pre-War Years: A First Approach Based on Archival Evidence - J. Arch Getty, Gabor T. Ritterspoon and Viktor
N. Zemskov
That's likely to be the LAST approach for some time, because the archives were closed off shortly after their work. They found about 750,000 executions between 1929 and 1953. That's still a lot. Michael Parenti wonders whether that may include a lot of Ukrainian cossacks who fought for the nazis, which could account for a large part of it. Getty et al all also consider deaths from mistreatment, neglect etc like the deportation of the Caucasus peoples to Siberia. The short story is that that may bring the total up to about 2 and 1/2 million at the outside. Not pretty, but not to be taken out of context of the Soviet experience, the massive death toll of the civil war in which many foreign armies participated, and the prospect of an even worse assault. Remember that Hitler's 'Mein Kampf', (in which he outlines his vision of the East as Germany's Wild West, and his vision of the future of the slavs as slavery or extermination) was published long before Stalin came to power, and that when Stalin came to power Hitler's nazis were already the biggest party in Germany. Whatever Stalin's crimes, he left all the people he ruled with universal healthcare, education, housing and stable employment. What would the nazis have left them? The idea that the communists were worse than the nazis is an idea that is very convenient for our ruling elites, which is why it is so pervasive, even the loathsome ziocons promoting it ( when is the greatest crime in history NOT the greatest crime in history? When it's convenient). But that's the DARK side!
فبعد هزيمة 67 انهال عددٌ من المثقفين العرب البارزين على العرب بالمعاول. ولم تكن هذه المعاولُ لتصيب عبدََ الناصر وعبدَ الحكيم عامر وحدهما، بل طاولت المجتمعَ العربيَّ، و«العقلَ العربيّ»، والفكرَ «الغيبيّ»، واللغة العربيّة «السقيمة»، والعنتريّاتِ العربيّة «التي ما قتلتْ ذبابة» (قبّاني). عشراتُ المثقفين ردّوا أسبابَ الهزيمة إلى بنية العائلة والعشيرة والدين، الكامنةِ ــــ كما زعموا ــــ في صميم الذهنيّة العربيّة. هكذا جاء أيّارُ 2000 لا ليكون رداً على حزيران 67 وما سبقه من هزائم فحسب، بل ليكون صفعةً كذلك لكلّ مثقفي «الجَلْد الذاتيّ» على امتداد عقود. فمع نصر 2000، تأكّد كثيرون منا، عقلياً وثقافياً ونفسياً، أنّ العرب ليسوا محكومين بالهزيمة والاستسلام، بل باتوا مرصودين لمستقبل ترفرف فوقه راياتُ الكرامة. لقد انتقم أيّار 2000، إذاً، لكلّ الشهور العربيّة الأليمة، وثأر السيّد حسن نصر الله لعشرات القادة المكافحين ضدّ الكيان الصهيوني: من الشيخ عزّ الدين القسّام إلى الرئيس جمال عبد الناصر.
http://www.al-akhbar.com/ar/node/192922#comment-52068
" Does this make me a Nazi too for writing the truth? " No, but it might make you a nazi for telling lies. The Bolsheviks killed 30 million by 1939? Why not go the whole hog and say they killed everyone in the world twice over, if you're not bothered about evidence?
The nazis didn't use the term 'master race'? You're right, they said it in German.
I think you greatly overstate the percentage of jews amongst the Bolsheviks, but if you've got figures from a credible source I'm all eyes. I have to admit though that I think you're roughly right about the Western Marxist organisations, that they're effectively jewish organisations. And I think there's something to be said for the case as put by Pat Buchanan, asshole though he is, that Britain shouldn't have gone to war with Germany over Poland - up to that point Germany had done nothing but take back land that was traditionally German, and whose peoples wanted to re-unite with Germany. The nazis were a vile regime, but ANY German government would have eventually felt pressure to break out of the sadistic restrictions imposed on Germany after WW1.
But what reason to you see to justify a war with Russia instead?
lafayette sennacherib you are hard to take seriously, you seem to believe that 30 million is twice the world's population in 1939. Clearly the Jewish Bolsheviks/Communists had completed most of their genocide before 1939, including the Holodomor in the Ukraine.Do you seriously believe that the Communists Jews carried out the bulk of the Genocide during the war or afterwards? If so you had better take that up with Solzhenitsyn.
No there's no record at all of the Nazis using the term "master race" in any language, The Germans actually used the term "Herrenfolk" if it was "Master Race" they would have said "Hauptrennen" . The term master race, was actually invented by Jewish Americans to their "victim image" enhance,although as I pointed out previously,the "chosen ones" are not above using the term to describe themselves.
The reason I believe a war against Russia , uniting with Germany, would have been a better option, other than not going to war at all of course, is that most of the world's problems post war revolve around Communism. In addition supporting Germany would have meant that the Jewish State currently squatting in Palestine would probably never have happened.
As for Jewish domination of Bolsheviks from 1917 of nearly 80% to that number being gradually reduced until the time of Khrushchev there's plenty of evidence.
As I pointed out even Churchill was of the same opinion on the level of Jewish involvement in Communism as Hitler, the Jewish mass genocide was no secret in 1939 This website actually gives the names of the Jews that were involved in 1917 http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_communism_was_jewish.html
Other links you may wish to use to educate yourself can be found here;
http://wake-up-america.net/jews_and_communism.htm
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html
http://www.library.flawlesslogic.com/tsar_1.htm
All Hail The Jewish Master Race! http://www.propagandamatrix.com/271003jewishmasterrace.html
Even in the Israeli media there's sometimes a confession although watered down http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
Let me know when you have finished reading these & I will get more for you. No need to thank me.
Interesting article today to concerning a number of Ashkenazi who are fleeing the current Jewish State to one of old http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/0607/Why-some-Jews-would-rather-live-in-Siberia-than-Israel/(page
Can't think for one moment the Russians will welcome these muderous thugs back.
To Michael - I'm not even looking at these links. I've seen this shit before. You people don't even know what 'evidence' IS, do you? As Norman Finkelstein said to some of the nazi nut-jobs who 'debated' him on why he wouldn't attend the 'holocaust conference' in Iran, " You people are a disgrace to your culture"
Some of the rest of what Finkelstein said on that occasion might be worth you pondering (loosely): " This conference just isn't SERIOUS or scholarly. The Iranians are able people. They can build advanced medical technology and put satellites in space; they KNOW what serious academic work IS... this ISN'T serious "
You make me laugh lafayette sennacherib, I don't believe that I've actually mentioned the "Holocaust" but there you go labelling me a holocaust denying Nazi.
You are clearly one of those idiots that invents the position of those that you disagree with, just like the nonsense about 30 million being half the world's population.
You are not looking at those links simply because they contradict your perverted view of reality. You are one of those "I'm right, you're wrong & I'm not interested in alternative views" kind of people
Interesting comments to be found by our new "friend" on the internet.
Also in 3rd Category Atzmon quotes, quite favourably, the notorious neo-nazi Rowan Berkeley, whom I think is also this 'Lafayette Sennacherib' character http://azvsas.blogspot.com/2008/10/gilad-atzmon-on-financial-crisis-jews.html
jock mctrousers said...
No, I'm not Rowan Berkeley. Yes, I'm also Lafayette Sennacherib occasionally. I suppose now you'll be digging back through the archives for my best non-pc moments. Get a life! I suppose you think that the likes of you Joe90 should have the right to vet supporters of the Palestine cause for signs of what you consider antisemitism. THAT will really bring the punters in. I consider use of the word antisemitism to be a symptom of a zionist mindset
http://azvsas.blogspot.com/2010/04/coalbrookdale-beauty-is-born.html
I find that its moderation policy is bewildering, political opponents are often silenced by deleting their posts, whereas rabid racists, such as “Jock McTrousers” are occasionally given a free run http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2008/02/08/believable-or-not/
Seems our new "friend" besides using many aliases is also a drug addict http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/lies-about-the-drug-burnouts/ . Perhaps that's the explaination for his weird comments & views?
Michael - you're a sad little fart. I wonder if you're Michael Rosen in drag, or Joe90/Hyacinth, trying to provoke some real racism to tar Gilad with? Or just one of the Harry's Place jerks? Get a list.
Last word: a list of jewish bolsheviks becomes 'evidence' when it is SOURCED i.e. it is accompanied by notes which lead to sources, which can be independently verified, for the claim that 1. those people named held the position the list says 2. that the people named were jewish, and to what extent.
Furthermore, since most of us are not in a position to independently verify such sources, it should really be accompanied by some evidence that there are some scholars who have credible credentials who have examined the sources and found some common ground for agreement. 'Credible credentials' DOESN'T mean high-profile 'academic' media superstars like Niall Ferguson, Montefiore, Conquest and the rest of the hacks who have done very well for themselves by providing 'ideological services' (to quote Chomsky) to the elites of Western imperialism. If you can't grasp that, I suggest that maybe YOU try some LSD and see it it dislodges the shit from your brain.
Well lafayette sennacherib you are obviously a man of many identities & your views seem to vary depending on who you are conversing with. I think you mentioned earlier that you are not very well, is that due to schizophrenia or is it linked with your addiction?
As for your childish comments concerning the link listing the Jewish domination of the leading Bolsheviks, including the names, which I kindly provided you. I have in fact personally spend a great deal of time researching this list and I have no the slightest doubt that it is accurate. Difficult mind you because these Khazars quite often have various names or various spellings.
I really can't see why you are in denial about the perpetrators of this genocidal act, far larger than the Holocaust which you seem obsessed with.
Instead of simply going around and questioning the validity of links every time you disagree with someone's views, i suggest you spend a little time researching history for yourself.
My own view of the "Holocaust" is very simple, frankly I'm not interested or concerned with it, fact or fiction, in comparison with the genocide carried out by Khazars/ Ashkenazi /Jews (take your pick) in the USSR it's practically a non-event.
Oh, REALLY the last word. " the notorious neo-nazi Rowan Berkeley" is NOT ME, and is actually a very sane and mild liberal anti-zionist. He runs the blog niqnaq which mostly just aggregates stuff, but there are some occasionally interesting comments in which Rowan Berkely participates as niqnaq. Here's a quote from today.
" niqnaq says:
June 10, 2010 at 9:59 am
So you are still implying that ‘Good Jews’ are somewhat likely to be figments of the imagination. However, this does not seem to me to be at all true. ‘Good Jews’ both great and small are conspicuous in history. "
Doesn't sound much like a neo-nazi! You'd have to be a very rabid zionist to call him such. That's how seriously anyone should take anything posted by this undercover zionist agent 'Michael' who is probably, I remember now, one 'Goodwin Sands' who used to post on peacepalestine, who is probably either Joe90/Kane/Hyacinth or the slimy Michael Rosen, both of whom slide around the left blogs pretending to support the Palestinians while trying to enforce censorship of 'the j-word'. As I said he's probably here in disguise to fish for dirt.
Enough of this shit. I only responded to Gilad because he asked me to. I'm not going to press on nahida's hospitality any further. END OF!
Your addled drug infected brain is running wild again, I don't have any other identities unlike the myriad you seem to use, by your own admission.
I don't believe I've every come across you before & I certainly hope I don't again in the future.
Some good advice for you in the future, don't be so quick to simply insult anyone that disagrees with you, try and present your views in a rational way instead of simply trying to nonsense links without actually reading what they say. Your devotion to Communism is rather old fashioned, even the Morning Star eventually accepted reality. Communism was a good idea at the time and had many beneficial ideals, but unfortunately is was high jacked by Jews/ Zionists/Khazars right from the start so much so that as far as socialism goes even Hitler was further advanced. True he was anti-union but he did allow and encourage worker's councils, guaranteed workers annual holidays, the first in Europe to do this,provided social housing & health care free of charge,. But no, this don't mean I'm a Nazi it just means I'm interested in the truth, but you seem to allow political dogma to blind you.
Goodbye, I hope you do get better soon.
.
Postscript:
" Some good advice for you in the future, don't be so quick to simply insult anyone that disagrees with you,"
OK to be fair, I could have given the impression I called you a nazi straight away. That's not what I meant.
" present your views in a rational way instead of simply trying to nonsense links without actually reading what they say. "
Well, I DID read them and they were exactly what I expected, what I've seen before. Thing is, I don't doubt that there's SOME substance in all that, but how can I argue to someone else - say someone who's determined to exonerate all jews for all guilt for anything ever, like the average self-styled 'leftist'- how can I quote this stuff to them unless there's solid evidence to back it up? That someone says it doesn't make it so. Because a list exists doesn't make it true. And I gave links earlier to works which pretty much say EVERYTHING that there's any evidence to support about death tolls in the soviet union.
" Your devotion to Communism is rather old fashioned, even the Morning Star eventually accepted reality. Communism was a good idea at the time and had many beneficial ideals, but unfortunately is was high jacked by [ ... ]right from the start "
There you go making assumptions about what I believe. What you wrote there (with my edit) is pretty much my position. There was never a shred of democracy in the Soviet world from the word go; but while the jews were big players, I'm unconvinced that it was a jewish coup. And in the balance, soviet communism, though unsustainable, saved more lives than it took.
" ... as far as socialism goes even Hitler was further advanced. True he was anti-union but he did allow and encourage worker's councils, guaranteed workers annual holidays, the first in Europe to do this,provided social housing & health care free of charge,. But no, this don't mean I'm a Nazi it just means I'm interested in the truth,"
Well, my experience of you so far makes me wonder if I go along with that, even a little, that you'll be quoting me all over the place as 'lafayette mcHitler'. All I'll say, no way playing down the barbarism of the nazis, is that there still seems to be an ideological constraint on study of WWII which disallows German patriotic nationalism as being any was as valid as British; and it was brave and imaginative of Gilad Atzmon to talk to Ernst Zundel in that light, though I disagree with a lot of what Zundel says. Adam Tooze's much-praised 2008 book 'the Wages of Destruction: the Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy' seems to be a big step forward in that direction.
OK lafayette sennacherib I sense a kind of apology there and in response I wish to apologise too. I will reply to your post later when I have more time, but briefly you ask for "solid evidence" but of course unless we actually experienced the Holocaust or spent time in a Jewish Soviet gulag, even then your word can be doubted, we have to rely on what we read in books or on the internet. I will try and find you reliable quotes, some of which will be repeated no doubt on sites which I (we) consider racist like Stormfront etc .
Just to confirm for now that I'm not a Nazis or fascist, in fact I've been on several anti-national Front/BNP demonstrations and during the S. African Apartheid era I was a member of the ANC, although I'm not black. Today of course I was saddened by the news that Nelson Mandela's great grand child died in an accident.
So look give me time & I will get back to you, I think we actually have far more in common than vice versa and your list of real friends is impressive. Don't worry I'm not going to start quoting you elsewhere, your "other friends" are unknown to me anyway.
I just came across this blog whilst narcissistically googling my own name.
I'm sorry to hear Nahida's comments about Palestine Think Tank. I can only suggest that it's a think tank, not a political party, so if contributors criticize organizations you approve of, or support a government you don't like, well that's their opinion. They generally allow a pretty broad range of views, including Lafayette. I would like to answer his comment above:
"I came across an online essay the other day by Jay Knott - he posted on PTT sometimes - called 'the Mass Psychology of Anti-Fascism' which makes some very worthwhile points, but is ruined by the central premise that nazis are considered worse than other political tendencies ONLY because they killed jews. No, no, no! Nazis were evil because they were not only fascists (the uncontested rule of the rich) but also racial supremacists, like zionists and white nationalists."
In the first place, you should quote directly from an article when criticizing it. Now to the logic. You say that I say that the Nazis are _considered_ worse because they murdered Jews. That's a bit of a simplification, but let it pass. You then say 'the Nazis were evil because...'. You go from my view of why the Nazis are _considered_ exceptionally bad to why they are _actually_ bad. I agree that Nazis suck. They were as bad as the Allies in many areas, and worse in one. My writing is about why they are _considered_ _qualitatively_ different from all the other horrendous parties of their time. And who benefits from the continuation of this myth.
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