Saturday, 2 January 2010

Wall of Shame, Viva Palestinia, and some Free minds for .....

As I expected Mary, the "defender of free speech";didn't pass my reply to here comment,

Hopefully, I kept a copy.

Most likely, she will claim like last. I is a technical issue.

To close the account, and save my energy for my site, I am posting here her comment, my reply, and samples of her readers reactions on Haitham's "Bombshell"

Out of all commenter's she selected me, because I have a site, and she thinks that I am after her site.


Check the full debate here

Mary Rizzo on December 30th, 2009 at 21:03

UP, what's Haitham's "real agenda"?


I know what it is: to liberate Palestine and be liberated himself as a Palestinian.
You, being Palestinian must understand what that means. That the lack of unity of Palestinians has NEVER helped them and this means to stop fighting on the one side Fatah and on the other side Hamas but to all together FIGHT THE ZIONISTS. To get every zionist out of their land and to get every Palestinian who will sell them to Zionists out of office.

He did indeed show his support of the International Freedom Fighters, please read carefully. He does NOT want them to be USED to promote anything but what they are supposed to do; in this case, bring awareness of the siege and of the occupation of Gaza.

They certainly should and MUST complain to Egypt and about what Egyptian regime is doing, but if this becomes the entire campaign, I personally, as an activist, would have asked where did Israel fit in all of this? Did the purpose of the campaign shift?
Does that question not cross through your mind?

WHY did Galloway's group even go if they knew they would not be able to set the conditions themselves? Unless making that the central story was it? I don't know, but when we get answers, we will be glad about it, and so should you.
anyone who does not show accountability for their actions is doing wrong. Moreso if they do it using your people.

Many know things that they are not saying, so what can I say other than the truth will come out sooner or later. No one, Haitham included, calls for the return of Dahlan! It is easy to insert insinuations.

The PA does NOT want Hamas to have full authority, and so, there are deals being made in ways none of us know all about. Of this you can be sure. But, who is supposed to control the border? Who do you recommend to do it? Not a rhetorical question, but think of what you want to answer.


Haitham did NOT defend the iron wall, he said why EGYPT would decide to make it, that is how i read it. He is not the creature you are attempting to depict him as, and what precisely good does it do to attack him in this way?
I personally don't believe in the Al Qaeda stuff, if they even exist, but I don't hear the Arab radio, I don't know what anyone there is saying if it's not in English, and I can assure you, there is every kind of propaganda and information one may want. There are many factions that are divided. All of this exists and it is wrong. I can guess that things are never quite as they seem. I can also guess that the Wall would never need to exist of Egypt would open the crossings. Why don't they do it? I still believe it has to do with the Israel/US/Arab Powers factions and for once, it would be important to really fight all who are in these powers instead of ONE ANOTHER.

Mary.
Though outraged, I spend one night thinking whether I should comment on Haithem's post or not. I was sure you would Jump to attack me like you did last time.

You wrote at my site:
So your job is smearing Haitham and his sites and work?

You may read my answer there.

Here I would comment on what you wrote here.

I personally, as an activist, would have asked where did Israel fit in all of this? Did the purpose of the campaign shift? Does that question not cross through your mind?

That question was always in my mind, until Pharaoh decided to play his last Card: THE WALL OF TRAESON, Built according to Haitham, to protect Pharaoh's citizens, stop Drug business, Smuggling Al-Qaeda likes….

You claimed that

Haitham did NOT defend the iron wall, he said why EGYPT would decide to make it, that is how I read it. Go read it again, and read the comments of many readers, in particular Jeff Blankfort ,
who read it rightfully as I did.

December 30th, 2009 at 13:56:

"We all know that Hamas is not a government anymore, …..Why do we ignore the fact that the PA asked Egypt to close Rafah border and blame Egypt (not to forget Israel)? …. and we saw evidences of this during many occasions such as pilgrimage this year and last year.……

We all know who controls the tunnels, and what they are used for. Who can dig a tunnel and who can't…… And we all know that the tunnels are not used ONLY for food. ….. If this is not enough reason for Egypt to construct this iron wall, I don't know what can be a good reason. …..Guess who is doing the trading and were the money goes. definitely not to buy food for the palestinians in Gaza."

Ladies and Gentlemen.

Is Hiatham telling his opinion or telling you what Egypt say??

As far as I know, smuggling business exists on every border worldwide. As far as Hamas is concerned, the main smuggling business is not only food, it’s the weapons used to stop the Invasion money, and men to get trained in Lebanon Syria, and Iran. It's also money, because no penny can cross Rafah crossing, even if it's within Haneya's pocket.

"He is not the creature you are attempting to depict him as, and what precisely good does it do to attack him in this way?"


I confess I find myself astounded, confounded and disgusted by Haitham's defense of Egypt in its responses to both the Gaza Freedom March and Viva Palestina. Had the Egyptian government not demonstrated for some years that is a tool both of the US and Israel (with the former being the tool of the latter), he might have had a leg to stand on. But he doesn't.

Egypt, not Israel, has to bear FULL responsibility for keeping its border with Gaza sealed. The police state of Egypt is simply an accessory to Israel's crimes out of fear of loss of aid at the hands of the US Congress which is constantly threatening to cut Egypt's billion plus annual funding.

While there may have been organizational problems with Viva Palestina, if Egypt was not a lickspittle for the US and Israel they would have let the convoy pass through, and while the Gaza Freedom March also had its problems, not surprising, given the size and nature of the march, again Egypt should have not cracked down on it the way it has and should have let the marchers and the aid into Gaza without hesitation. In fact, had Egypt not long ago betrayed the Palestinian struggle, neither Viva Palestina or the Gaza Freedom March would have been necessary.


Jeff Blankfort on
December 31st, 2009 at 23:01
Mary
He depicted himself, On PTT Anniversary, I remember you saying to Gilad: We Make the Media. Because he is partially making the alternative media, I called spade, spade. I am outraged when some Palestinian Generals, and Admirals who despite their intentions, serve directly or indirectly the Agendas of our Enemy, in creating despair, instead of creating hope, creating enemies, instead of creating friends, dividing instead of uniting. And the worst thing is putting International Activists on the Wrong Track instead of the right one.

"No one, Haitham included, calls for the return of Dahlan! It is easy to insert insinuations."

You know he called for the return of PA to control the crossing. And you know that Dahlan is the heart of that PA. While Gaza under attack, his thugs were there in Arish waiting the fall of the last fort.


I am almost on the same with the majority of the commenter's, and I salute the "astounded, confounded and disgusted" Jeff

I second every word he wrote. He hit the nail in saying: "Haitham, your undisguised hatred of Hamas has obviously clouded your thinking. A first time PTT reader might be forgiven for thinking your words were written by the Jerusalem Post's Khalid Abu Toameh"

Most likely, the statement may apply on his Biased Lawyer.

Jeff Blankfort on
December 31st, 2009 at 6:23:





Haitham,


I entered this conversation soemtime after you had initiated it and have just gone back to see if what others had criticized you for writing you had actually said and it turns out that they were correct: For example, you wrote:

"…Why do we ignore the fact that the PA asked Egypt to close Rafah border and blame Egypt (not to forget Israel)? Why in the world any country open its borders without any regulations? …"
I find all of those statements of your mind boggling.First, do you really think that Egypt would close the Rafah border because the PA asked them to? If you do, you are totally out of touch with reality. If the PA hardly has any credibility or power within the West Bank, do you really think that Mubarak would listen to anything that Abbas would have to say?

You go on:

"Let's assume the border is open, wont you have to pass through passport regulations at your country? That's the case everywhere. So, who decide if you or me can leave Gaza or not? What if I was a criminal running away from my country, how would Egyptians know? This is the responsibility of PA and national boarder police, which is NOT Hamas and which Hamas refusing to install back."

You write about the responsibility of the PA and the border police to monitor the borders. That you can do so when the PA forces do absolutely nothing to prevent the Israeli occupation forces from entering Palestinian towns and villages and assassinating or arresting whatever Palestinians they choose, do nothing to guard the non-violent demonstrators against the wall, but who were there to suppress demonstrations by West Bank Palestinians in support of their brothers and sisters in Gaza during Cast Lead, is equally unbelievable, but that, sadly, is not the end of it.

You write:

"So, keeping just the above example in mind, why would Egypt open the boarders? At the end of the day they have the right to protect their citizens…"

Do you believe that the dictator Mubarak gives a damn about protecting Egypt's citizens?. Are you serious?

And then, finally, after making a series of assumptions about the tunnels, you write, "If this is not enough reason for Egypt to construct this iron wall, I don't know what can be a good reason." It seems to me, after reading this several times, that you are justifying the building of the wall and blocking the tunnels. I am sure the Gazans will appreciate that sign of your support for them.
Haitham, your undisguised hatred of Hamas has obviously clouded your thinking. A first time PTT reader might be forgiven for thinking your words were written by the Jerusalem Post's Khalid Abu Toameh.


Richard Edmondson on January 1st, 2010 at 0:55:

Haitham writes

"I think this is a lesson for the activists to learn from. Viva Palestina and Gaza Freedom March made a mess and they involved everyone in it. It is embarrassing to act in such a way."

This seems overly harsh and critical. I'm not suggesting the leadership of either group should be regarded as above criticism. Constructive criticism is a good thing in any movement. But there's a proper time and place for it. Leveling such criticism now, at a time when people are on hunger strike to try and open the border, seems extraordinarily bad timing.

Don't get me wrong, I think Palestine Think Tank is a very good web site, extremely useful and informative. I take my hat off to Haitham, Mary, and others who contribute to it. I just think this one article has missed the mark.


nahida on January 1st, 2010 at 18:17


.Serious proclamations, accusations and indictments by Haitham:FIRST:
• Haitham claims: Hamas smuggles drugs
The "Wall of shame" as you call it is a different story. tell Hamas to stop smuggling drugs (one of many reasons) in and out from Gaza then we can speak about it. Keeping in mind that if Egypt wants to cut aid to Gaza, all what they need to do is close the road that leads to Egyptian Rafah.”SECOND:
• Haitham claims: Hamas smuggles terrorists groups
We all know who controls the tunnels, and what they are used for. Who can dig a tunnel and who can't. What can be brought from Egyptian Rafah and what should not. And we all know that the tunnels are not used ONLY for food. In fact food is just a cover to many other businesses and even worse a passage for terrorist groups such as Al-Qaedaa and their likes which Gaza are full with these days. If this is not enough reason for Egypt to construct this iron wall, I don't know what can be a good reason. That not to mention the drugs business. Guess who is doing the trading and were the money goes. definitely not to buy food for the palestinians in Gaza. ”THIRD:
• Haitham claims: Hamas are financially corrupt:
Hamas leaders are not living in tents and their kids don't miss a meal!
And we all know that the tunnels are not used ONLY for food. In fact food is just a cover to many other businesses
That not to mention the drugs business. Guess who is doing the trading and were the money goes. definitely not to buy food for the palestinians in Gaza. ”FORTH:
• Haitham Defends Egypt:
Egypt can do more and better, but they are not responsible for what we are in now, but the occupation and our PA and Hamas.”
“this turned to no more than smearing Egyptians, which have done to Gaza more than any other Arabian or Western country did.”
why would Egypt open the boarders? At the end of the day they have the right to protect their citizens
Why in the world any country open its borders without any regulations?
As for the passport thing, well, we should be thankful for egypt then that they take this risk.”
Are the Egyptians closing Rafah crossing by their own? No, the Palestinian Authority asked them to do that. ”FIFTH:
• Then he denies it:
no one is defending Egypt. I don't defend the Egyptian regime nor have sympathy with what they do. It's never happened”SIXTH:
• Haitham does not acknowledge the democratically elected Government of Hamas and blames them for what’s happening to Palestinians :
So if Galloway want to blame anyone and not the Israeli occupation, then it is the PA and Hamas”
“Egypt can do more and better, but they are not responsible for what we are in now, but the occupation and our PA and Hamas.”
“What if I was a criminal running away from my country, how would Egyptians know? This is the responsibility of PA and national boarder police, which is NOT Hamas and which Hamas refusing to install back.
“We all know that Hamas is not a government anymore”

“Hamas is not official regulationSEVENTH:
• Haitham Defends the WALL OF SHAME:
The "Wall of shame" as you call it is a different story”
“If this is not enough reason for Egypt to construct this iron wall, I don't know what can be a good reason”EIGHTH:
• Haitham doesn’t mind corrupted PA:

“That's what I'm saying. put the blame and the pressure on US, Western Power and the occupation, Israel. Then they will allow PA to run Rafah border, which in turn will make Egyptians opens it.
if the only way to ease the situation in Gaza is to put hand with corrupted PA, I don't mind.”
==================================
The question that begs an answer now:
where is your evidence Haitham??? And whose interest does all this proclamations, indictments and allegations serve other than the zionist occupiers??

nahida on January 1st, 2010 at 19:30:

This is the home of the Palestinian Prime Minister and Hamas member Ismail Haniyeh:
http://tinyurl.com/ybu3k83
I would love to see how it compares to the palaces of other world leaders and Arab tyrants including that of PA leaders and of Mubarak of Egypt !!
QUOTE:
"…. Unlike Fatah leaders, Haniyeh moves without escort, and mixes freely with people on the streets. He has turned down the offer of 4,000 dollars a month as salary, and accepts only 1,500 dollars, which is what he needs, he says, for his family that includes 13 children. And he still lives in his old house in Shati Camp, one of the poorest refugee camps in the east of Gaza City."
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=42079


exilem on January 1st, 2010 at 20:18:

As Uprooted Palestinian, Jeff Blankfort, Nahida and a few others eloquently stated, Haitham's article and subsequent comments above, are unsubstantiated allegations.
Such allegations against Palestinians, Gazans and their supporters, are the very same hateful soundbites we hear and see everywhere in Judeo-Zionist run smear campaigns.
They don't hold water, not even to the most elementary scrutiny.
For example the ludicrous accusations that "Hamas and Hezbollah collaborate with Mexican drug cartels", comes… straight from the US government propaganda kitchens:
http://www.infowars.com/us-government-hamas-hezbollah-collaborating-with-mexican-drug-cartels/
…and to use Haitham's own vernacular "we all know who controls these" poison kitchens.
Wherever the USA introduces wars and CIA, the drug business suddenly explodes, and that has one good reason: the CIA and the USA finance their covert operations with drug money. The CIA's narco-colonialism is dubbed by some "Cocaine Importing Agency". Contrary to US-America's propaganda kitchens, Afghanistan's <b<Muslim Pashtuns had been successful in eradicating the opium trafficking. It is only after the US invasion, that Afghanistan became the epicenter of opiate production, under the input of the CIA peddlers.
But what is Haitham trying to say? That Gazans are so bored, wealthy and well-fed, that there is place for a large drug consumption, i.e. trafficking in Gaza? Does it occur to him how ridiculous such statement is ?
Just like the Muslim Aghanis, the Muslim Hamas government is severely sanctioning drug trafficking
http://www.javno.com/en-world/hamas-approves-law-to-execute-drug-dealers_284185
JAVNO HRVATSKI
November 30, 2009 15:24h
….
The Islamist Hamas-run government ruling Gaza has approved a legal change that will allow for the execution of convicted drug dealers, its attorney general said on Monday.
……..
- The Zionist law included light punishments that encouraged rather than deterred those who take and trade in drugs, and there is no objective, national or moral justification for continuing to apply it – Abed said.
…….
Hamas, meanwhile, has cracked down on drugs, saying it has arrested more than 100 alleged drug dealers and users, with dozens of kilos of contraband, mostly marijuana, seized.
http://www.javno.com/en-world/hamas-approves-law-to-execute-drug-dealers_284185


nahida


on January 1st, 2010 at 20:25:
Hamas leaders are not living in tents”; says Haitham
==================================================
Many of Hamas leaders indeed are not living in tents -or homes for that matter- anymore, because many of those heroic people are NOT LIVING anymore; period.
They have been assassinated and martyred, many with their families and loved ones:
• Yahya Ayyash, (1996), Hamas' military wing
• Salah Shahade, (2002), leader of Hamas' military wing
• Ibrahim al-Makadmeh, (2003), co-founder of Hamas
• Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, (2004), leader and founder of Hamas
• Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi, (2004), leader of Hamas
• Izz El-Deen Sheikh Khalil, (2004), leader of Hamas' military wing
• Adnan al-Ghoul, (2004), leader of Hamas
• Nabil Abu Salmiya (2006), leader of Hamas
• Salah Abu Sharkh. (2009), leader of Hamas
• Mahmoud Abu Watfah (2009), leader of Hamas
• Ayad Siam (2009), leader of Hamas
• Said Siam (2009), leader of Hamas
• Nizar Rayyan (2009), leader of Hamas
To name but a few of the many THOUSANDS of those noble selfless souls

6 comments:

Bilal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bilal said...

The enemy is of course Israel and always will be but I CANNOT comprehend how Haitham could defend Egypt's conduct against Viva Palestina and their despicable wall. I am with Nahida, Jeff and UP on this.

How could you possibly defend the thuggish Egyptians when they did everything in their power to abort the Gaza Freedom March? Viva Palestina are doing excellent work and they are the pride of British Muslims and the pro-Palestinian arena! OK maybe they did make some mistakes here or there but to take the side of Egypt is quite shocking.

As Nahida also pointed out, the anti-Hamas tone of your comments (which were brilliantly refuted by Nahida) are libellous. Hamas smuggling drugs, financially corrupt?! Show me evidence of this and then I'll listen, clearly it has clouded your judgement. You also mention that Gaza is full of Jihad and terrorist groups, if this is the case (which I doubt) then it is Israel's fault not Hamas! Hamas acted against Al-Qaeda forcefully even at a price of their own Police. Hamas has been vilified far and wide and whilst many people may disagree with their Islamist agenda, the fact is they form the core of Palestinian resistance, they have the support of the people, they are honest and they will sacrifice their lives for the sake of Palestine - anyone who supports Palestinian rights should support Hamas.

Even if you are not an Islamist, as an activist for Palestine, it is in your interests to support Hamas. Yes, condemn what needs to be condemned but remember that Hamas is full of men and women who will lay down their lives for Palestine. Times are hard now, yes, but we must always speak the truth even if it comes at the price of falling out with Egypt. We must recognise the facts:

1) Egypt is actively taking part in the siege of Gaza, encouraged by the PA. I don’t need to tell you what the siege is doing.

2) Egypt is a repressive regime that rules with an iron fist. The government do not speak for the people. Indeed, Mubarak is hated and feared by Egyptians.

3) The wall that Egypt is building is aimed at stopping the tunnel industry - the only lifeline left for Gazans, giving further credence to the argument that Egypt is starving the Palestinians.

4) Egypt justified the building of the wall (after denying it was being built) on terms of 'security' - the same argument Israel uses.

These are facts that cannot be ignored. Haitham, I have followed you for many years and you have my respect but you must admit when you are wrong. We must stop this bickering and concentrate on defending the Palestinians against the many injustices committed by anyone - whether it’s Israel, Egypt or the PA.

Bilal said...

My comment was not published, cant imagine why

uprooted Palestinian said...

Yes, Bilal, I can Imagine, the net star, who moderate the site sent me an e-mail, telling me that I am Lucky because has not responded in Puplic.
I shall not spoil my time in private mailing. I challange her to do it here, and I promise to put whatever say on the first page.

Bilal said...

Ye I was quite surprised as I was calling for unity but without giving up our principles. Theyre obviously embarassed by this.

Anonymous said...

nice post. thanks.