Contributed by Lucia
A reply to Palestinian Pundit (Blaming Shiite thugs in Iraq)
Thanks Lucia: You hit the nail
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It is only the Baathist/Saddamites and their supporters, like Uruknet, that blame the "sectarian Shiite thugs" for the terrorism perpetrated against the Palestinian refugees in Iraq. Add it the zio- or zio-influenced press; being the Saddamites far more rabid than the zios in their hatred for their shia kin, since the Zionists identify the attackers as "Iraqi security forces", "We used to say the attacks occurred by militias or gangs; but now the state is attacking," Haaretz; "Dozens of Palestinians have been killed in Iraq by Iraqis belonging to various political and religious factions", Shi'ite militias and Iraqi intelligence officers, militiamen" Jlem Post
I have already said that Sistani had issued a Fatwa forbidding any attacks on Palestinians, what makes the baathist claim above very improbable. So, the culprits have to be found elsewhere, even though isolated pockets of shia/Mehdi might hypothetically have disobeyed their guru and be implicated, given the chaos existing in Iraq. Buy let’s have in mind that there is no reliable information signalling the Shias/Mahdi for the murder, torture of Palestinians in Iraq, much the less for the drillings.
These are terms that only the Baathist/ Saddamists use, extending their finger towards Iran (“the Safavids” the “turbaned backward Mullahs” as they call them) as the ultimate and main responsible.You won’t find a serious investigative journalist like Pilger, who wrote often on the war on Iraq, blaming the Shias-Mahdi. Neither Dahr Jamail, an honest reporter with first hand knowledge of what’s going on there.
Dahr Jamail has alluded the sectarianism between shia and sunni, which he linked cent per cent to the Americans’ “special intelligence units” and “death squads”, but I have never read him relating the shia with the murder of Palestinians. So, there is not enough evidence to prove the Baathist’s claims, which are obviously driven by resentment and hatred.
A google search will only come up with the two articles already mentioned in an earlier thread (14.09), that is, the Washington Post article, and the Daily Telegraph one. WaPo is not, in my book, a reliable source of info on Iraq or the Mideast. It is too Zionist-biased, and has been pro-war since the very beginning.
But, despite its starting with describing the “grisly attacks and other sectarian violence” as “unleashed by the bombing of a Shia shrine”, the Saddamites don’t hesitate bringing it up, just because it mentions some families “blaming the Mahdi for the abduction”.
So, by and doing an exercise in selective readingdecide to ignore what follows “Aides to Sadr denied the allegations, calling them part of a smear campaign by unspecified political rivals” and “In the Shiite holy city of Najaf, aides to Sadr denied any role in the killings” and “Sahib al-Amiri, another close aide, said: “Some political party accused [Sadr’s political party] and the Mahdy Amy because they considered us as competitive to them. So they recruited criminals to kill Shiites and sunnis”
Thus the Saddamites cherry pick whose paragraphs to believe, duh, obviously the ones that fit their pre-established script. This even despite of the WaPo quoting some paragraphs below that “The bulk of the previously known deaths were caused by bombings and other large scale attacks As to the Daily Telegraph, it belongs to the same owners of the Jerusalem Post.
The Daily Telegraph is called by the British satirical magazine Private Eye as The Telavivagraph for its unwavering support for Israel, particularly the Likud party, and its connection with those with a vested interest in Israel's prosperity, particularly Conrad Black and Barbara Amiel.
Black was its former owner. Current ones are the controversial Barclays twins; but the Telegraph was bought in 1855 (only few months after it was founded) by Joseph Moses Levy and his wife Esther née Cohen -not likely ancestral British names, uh?- Their son Edward Levy inherited it, and was later appointed as 1st Baron Burnham in 1903. More things can be said about the Daily Telegraph. But suffice with the above, to shed more light to the issue in question. I’d also suggest those interested, to read a todays article by the Palestinian journalist Iqbal Tamimi at Palestine Think Tank website, explaining her personal experience with it.I’ll paste below fragments of an older important article of hers regarding the Palestinians of Iraq, where she puts names to their attackers. The Mahdi appears only twice, as storming and wounding Palestinians. But, being this bad enough, the worst “operations” were not done by them.
The Palestinians of Iraq
After the occupation of Haifa, the Palestinians who remained alive immigrated to the city of Jenin aided by the Iraqi army, which used to be part of the so-called Salvation Army, which also included Syrian and Arab forces.
Then the Iraqi army helped evacuate them by means of military buses to Iraq, their number was approximately 3500. This decision was made after the guardian of Iraq and his sister Queen Alia visited Jenin and witnessed the situation. He ordered the army troops to bring the Palestinians as guests of Iraq. Some remained in Jenin, others emigrated to Syria and Jordan.
The number of Palestinian refugees in Iraq before the USA occupation of Iraq in 2003 was 30,000 refugees according to UNHCR statistics.
After the exodus from Palestine to Iraq, the Palestinian refugees were initially housed in shelters and cellars, and then they started sharing with other families a number of houses. This was common among the refugees because they were not allowed to own any property, besides the fact that there were no international institutions or organizations to care for them in Iraq such as the United Nations.
The Palestinians were later granted refugee status in Iraq, and started to work in odd jobs to support their families. The students were offered places in Iraqi schools and collages and were treated exactly like Iraqi students.
After the Anglo-American occupation forces took over control of the Iraqi capital Baghdad, this led to widespread chaos in Iraq, and loss of the security the occupiers promised the Iraqis. This chaos and confusion was used by some parties to target the Palestinians in Baghdad, especially in the Albaladiyat district which is among the largest Palestinian communities in Iraq. The Palestinians were described with words like “Saddamists”. The Palestinians would not dare to show any ID card proving their nationality, nor use their Palestinian dialects.
They received lots of death threat letters, and were told to leave Iraq or else they will end up dead and their fate will be like their “friend”. Many Palestinians were kidnapped and killed. Many incidents were reported of Palestinians who were assassinated and their bodies dumped at garbage sites bearing torture wounds and mutilatation. The latest statistics report that almost 600 Palestinians were killed in Iraq.
Among those killed
Liza Ali Husain 26, and her two children Rahman Ahmad 6, and Ali Ahmad 3. Their bodies were found 50 days after their abduction.
The National Guards abducted the Palestinian Mohammad Abbas Nimer from the Islamic University at AlAthamieyah on the 4th of June 2004, and no one knows anything about his whereabouts up till this moment.
Ziyad Faleh Mahmoud Abu Jeedeh was arrested by the state forces at Almashtal area on the 4th of January 2006, and then he was killed.
Adel Ateyah was working in his barber shop in Albaladyat neighbourhood when he was abducted by a gang wearing black, he was beaten up, sworn at, then they took him away on the 15th of January 2006. Since then no one knows his whereabouts.
Khalid Mohammad Qtaish was assassinated by Al Rafidain Brigade on the 22nd of Januar 2006.
Arrests:
The Palestinians would be arrested and transferred to an unknown place. Then and there torture begins, accompanied by fabricated accusations for the detainee.
The abductors used all kinds of torture starting by stripping the Palestinian of his clothes, and beatings on the genitals, electric shocks, and extracting his nails. Then the bargaining starts with his family, to release him for a ransom. If they could not find anything to charge him with, he will be charged with “being a Palestinian,” some of those tortured are:
Sameer Jameal was arrested from his shop at Albab Alsharqi on the 14th of January 2006.
Mohammad Ahmad Alhorani was working as a taxi driver, he was arrested on the 16th of January 2005 at a checkpoint after handing them his Palestinian ID.
Mohammad Darweesh, and Mohammad Abdelfattah were both arrested by the security forces in the new Baghdad district on the 24th of January 2006.
Cars belonging to the Rafidain Brigade stormed the municipal district in Baghdad on the 25th of January 2006, and arrested the teachers Kamal Saleem, Jamal Saeed and Yasser Hassan.
Interior commandos stormed the compound of Za’faraniya and arrested Hilal Saud on the 27th of January 2006.
Raids:
Raids have been done against the homes of Palestinians in the late hours by the Iraqi National Guardsmen and U.S. forces. Such operations were carried out amid harassment of Palestinians and destruction of their homes and personal belongings in search of claimed evidence. Some of such examples are:
On the 6th of December 2004 the U.S. occupation forces surrounded the Albaladiyat neighborhood with more than seventy armored vehicles, then raided the Haifa Club and detained dozens of Palestinians for hours.
U.S. and Iraqi forces raided the home of the Palestinian Adel Omar Al-Isawi in AlIlam neighborhood after midnight; the soldiers searched the house and arrested the owner without any reason.
AlMahdi Army gangs stormed Alquds mosque in AlBaladiyat area and wrecked it, leaving havoc and chaos on the 22nd of February 2006.
AlMahdi Army gang stormed the residential compound in Baghdad amid intensive gunfire, leaving five Palestinian men and one woman wounded on that same day.
Members of Altheeb Brigade attacked Albaladiyat compound the next day and harassed a number of Palestinian youths.
The bombing of houses
Palestinian homes were exposed to shelling and mortar detonations, by placing the explosives at the doorsteps of the Palestinians’ houses. Such operations were carried out by armed militias and American and Iraqi forces. Some of those incidents as an example:
A mortar shell landed on the compound of Albaladiyat area, killing five Palestinians and wounding others on the 31st of January 2004.
A mortar shell landed on one of the Palestinian homes knocking down the house and injuring two Palestinians on the 2nd of February 2006.
A mortar shell landed near a house but did not explode on the 22nd of Febrary 2006.
Media incitement against the Palestinians in Iraq
Incitement of hatred has been done by distorting the facts and targeting the Palestinians to convict them of criminal acts in Baghdad. This has been clear in many of the Iraqi media outlets, which does not enjoy credibility and professionalism.
As an example, several explosions occurred in the New Baghdad area on the 12 of May 2005, four Palestinians were accused and arrested for investigation, but proved to have been innocent, however, Iraqi TV channels like AlFayhaa, the Euphrates and the Iraqiya TV channels broadcasted the accusations, but when the accused Palestinians were proven innocent none of them mentioned that. Incitement against the Palestinians was continued.
Back to the camps
At the beginning the Palestinians were forced to live within camps in Baghdad, but after the attacks against them continued, accompanied by threatening letters to leave Iraq or else, they had no choice but to flee, knowing that 600 Palestinians had been killed in Iraq.
The number of Palestinian refugees in Iraq dropped to 15 thousand refugees after the mass exodus of Palestinians towards the borders of Arab countries, where many camps were established, some of those camps are:
Alwaleed Camp
This camp is located in the Anbar region in the Iraqi territory, and it is one of the worst camps social and health wise. When Alwaleed Camp was established early in 2007 it accommodated 32 refugees, the number of refugees in the camp now exceeds 939 people. The refugees live within a number of tents, assisted by human aid organizations, and the United Nations operating inside Iraq.
Some of the incidents recorded within this Camp:
Three death cases, those were (Osama Jamal Zuhdi Al-Murtada, born 1977, he died after suffering asthma), Ali Sydam (born 1949, he suffered heart problems) and a baby girl called Ratad Omer (6 months old, she died of anaemia).
The residents of the camp started a hunger strike on the 11th of April 2007, until their demands were met. They requested an improvement in their conditions.
On the 23rd of that same month the camp faced sand storms which led to difficulty in breathing and uprooting of their tents.
On the 29th the refugee Abdul Aziz Mohamed (19 years) was injured due to a fire that started inside his tent.
On the 3rd of May 2007 a decision was made to close Alwaleed Camp and to stop receiving more Palestinian refugees.
The Tanf Camp
The Tanf Camp is located between the Syrian and Iraqi borders. The distance between its location and the Iraqi gate is 3 km. while it is 300 metres away from the Syrian gate. It was established in May 2006. It has become the home of 350 Palestinian refugees who are suffering from the poor environmental, health, and social conditions present there.
Many incidents were documented in this camp provided for by the Aid of the Palestinian factions residing on Syrian territory and organizations like the United Nations.
Some of the events that happened in this camp and worth mentioning:
12-year-old Ahmad Akram Mousa died after a big truck ran him over on its way to Iraq on the 28th of August 2006.
The camp was raided by the Iraqi border guards on the 18th of June 2006, arresting many Palestinian refugees.
The refugee Mohammad Lutfi Alshaikh Khaleel died on the 30th of March 2007 of kidney failure.
On the 9th of April 2007 the refugees in the camp voted to create a committee to manage the camp.
A strong fast sand storm hit the camp on 19th of April 2007 injuring many and uprooting the tents.
An enormous fire broke out in the camp on the 24th of April 2007, injuring 7 families and burning 21 tents to the ground.
On the 6th of May 2007, the refugees at the camp expressed solidarity with the detained Palestinian prisoners in the prisons of the Zionist state of Israel.
On the 9th of May 2007, 6 cases of dehydration and malnutrition among the children in the camp were reported.
Al Ruweished Camp
This camp is situated on the Iraqi Jordanian borders. 550 Palestinian refugees moved there from Iraq on the 1st of May 2003. Since that date they are experiencing the living hell with no hope of finding another alternative, battling against the harsh desert life and the sand storms which keep attacking their tents.
Humanitarian workers in the field had to wear goggles to be able to work in such difficult circumstances. The people in the camp suffer outbreaks of respiratory problems caused by the storms of fine dust, in addition to the hot climate in the summer and severe cold in the winter. After three years since their arrival to the desert camp, they are still living in simple tents and huts made of wooden frames and blankets stitched together.
During the past three years, the Palestinian refugees at Ruweished camp are still prisoners in practical terms; the camp fence is guarded by Jordanian police. The refugees have to request permission to leave the camp to go shopping for essentials in the nearby town of Ruweished, but they can not leave the camp for any other reason.
When a refugee needs hospital treatment, the police constantly guard him in hospital near his bed.
Should any relatives, friends, journalists, relief officials or human rights workers want to visit any person in Ruweished camp, they require obtaining an approved permission from the Minister of Interior of Jordan.
There is a mother in Jordan who has three sons (Palestinian Iraqis) in Ruweished Camp, but the Jordanian authorities would not allow them to join their mother in Jordan, And she has to obtain such approval to be able to visit them in the camp.
Alhoul Camp
This camp lies inside the Syrian territory, in the Hasakah city, 700 km northeast of the Syrian capital of Damascus. The refugees were allowed to live in Syria on the 9th of May 2006 after the Jordanian authorities denied them the permission to stay inside its borders when they were on the Iraqi-Jordanian border in the Tarbeel Camp.
The Syrian authorities allowed them to build blocks covered with metal sheets. All 307 of them are unemployed. They get aid from Palestinian factions in Syria, International humanitarian organizations and the UN.
Many outbreaks of diseases have affected their children like jaundice, which demands care at hospitals.
By Iqbal Tamimi • Aug 5th, 2008 at 12:12 • Category: Analysis, Nakba and Right of Return, Newswire, Palestine, Uprooted Palestinians' Testimonies, War, Zionism
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Lucia
Obsessions are not healthy.
Zarathustra 09.21.08 - 4:18 pm #
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who's obsessed?
Lucia 09.21.08 - 4:28 pm #
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of course Lucia the genocide revisionist keeps DENYING what the Palestinians in Iraq have said themselves-- namely that that SHIITE death squads tied to the fucking Mahdi army, the Badr and the Dawa, (who form the current Iraqi govt and who came to power thanks to US and Iran), financed and trained by IRAN, including some fucked QUDS iranian brigades --were liquidating them.
The Palestinian population in Iraq dropped from 35'000 or so to about 10'000 since the fucking occupation.
But the fucked up histerical lucia would have none of that, coz she knows better, parroting her fucking lice, flea riddled mullahs from Qum.
Damn it !
Layla Anwar 09.22.08 - 12:21 am #
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***** more to my comments above *****
Salafist websites this week launched a barrage of stinging attacks on Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Predominantly these attacks came from sites linked with Saudi Arabia.
Comment: At the same time that these web sites are attacking these movements, large financial resources are being channeled to the Salafists from Saudi Arabia.
Commentators on the internet suggest that the motivation for this campaign, possibly encouraged by western agencies, is the attempt
Lucia 09.22.08 - 12:47 am #
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The haloscan is messing links up. My previous post got truncated by the link. Again:
Salafist websites this week launched a barrage of stinging attacks on Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Predominantly these attacks came from sites linked with Saudi Arabia.
Comment: At the same time that these web sites are attacking these movements, large financial resources are being channeled to the Salafists from Saudi Arabia.
Commentators on the internet suggest that the motivation for this campaign, possibly encouraged by western agencies, is the attempt to divert Sunni Arab anger away from Israel – and to re-direct it to an alternative “enemy”, Iran and its “allies”.
“Moderate” Arab leaders are concerned that the growing hostility to Israel undermines their domestic situation by exposing their support for President Abbas as tantamount to collaboration with Israel in oppressing Palestinians living in Gaza. As popular Arab hostility towards Israeli actions directed towards Gaza grows, so street anger towards these regimes rises – and the popularity of Iran, Syria, Hamas and Hezbollah increases: This makes “moderate” leaders feel vulnerable. (continues...)
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Lucia 09.22.08 - 12:56 am #
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Of course lalalayla, the baathist-saddamist cheap demagogue continues on "her" pulpit willing to sell motor-bikes, as long as she's allowed to.
It happens I don't buy them!, as won't do any person having ONE functioning neurone.
Now the following last paragraph is only for lalalayla, so the rest please skip it.
I want to tell you, using your scatological language, that appears to be the only one you understand:
** LAYLA GO TO SHIT! **
Is it clearer now for you?
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Lucia 09.22.08 - 1:09 am #
Lucia, Not only are you an ignorant person which is obvious, but you are also arrogant and paternalistic. Look at yourself: You speak no Arabic, No Persian, never been to Iraq, do not know anything about its people yet you allow yourself to "debate" them about issues concerning their own lives and country while you sit comfortably in your home in Europe somewhere. What is most amusing about you is your self-assured tone. I love it. Maybe its chic for a Westerner to support the ostensibly anti-Imperialist, anti-Zionist (and maybe in western eyes even exotic) Persian Mullahs, but for Layla Anwar and other Iraqis these are real issues dealing with life and death. So you will have to excuse us that we don't consider this to be some sort of debating contest and quite simply tell you to FUCK OFF!
Secular Arab 09.22.08 - 2:01 am #
What a chutzpah!
None other than secular arab who FLED Irak and HIDES in Texas, of all places!, under the skirts of his country's enemy. And this dude is telling me who I am to speak of Irak!?
Listen dude!.
I'm a foreigner who is showing far more interest than you and your lalalaina do. If your interest for your country were like this - you'd be there fighting the occupiers, even with the teeth if need be, instead of being cowardly hiding abroad, and preaching over the internet.
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Lucia 09.22.08 - 2:32 am #
"Conviction is a greater enemy of Truth than lies" .Lucia fell victim to her own convictions and used the same rationalizations that she always fought against. Benny Morris uses the same logic to whitewash Zionist crimes in Palestine , and now she is obsessed about trying to exonerate the shia death squads from their crimes against the Palestinians. I guess in Lucia's world it makes sense for the Zionist to commit atrocities against the Palestinians but why would the Mahdi army do so ? In essence everyone critical of Mahdi or Badr or Iran for that matter for their role in Iraq quickly gets labeled "Sadamist" , "Zionist" or "Sectarian Sunni". Same way anyone who is critical of Israel gets labeled as "Anti Semite".Pity.
Zarathustra 09.22.08 - 2:42 pm #
Zarathustra, you're showing your lil leg under the door way too much. Beware! Some other one, even a friend of yours, may notice you are the wolf rather than little red riding hood-Lucia 09.22.08 - 3:21 pm #
how funny.
Scroll down to find this:ليلى و الذئب,
hahahahaha-
Lucia 09.22.08 - 3:45 pm #
In Defense of Lucia
I deplore the personal attacks on Lucia. She has been a strong supporter and a dedicated reader and contributor.
She is by far better informed than most when it comes to the Middle East, and in particular when it comes to the Palestinians.
I am greatly indebted to Lucia for her numerous contributions and postings on this blog.
Differences of opinion and objective debate are healthy. As I expressed to Lucia before, I differ with her on the issue of the Shiite sectarian militias in Iraq and their brutal killing and torture of Palestinians there.
I would appreciate if the debate is kept at a decent level and away from the personal attacks. Lucia is entitled to her opinion on this issue.
Tony Sayegh Homepage 09.23.08 - 9:33 am #
Layla Anwar,
After Tony's "major rethink" (A few days ago he realized what the Iraqis and Baathists have been saying for 20 years about Iran)he had a fall out with Lucia.
Attacking Iraqis (although qualified as an attack on Baathists/Arab Nationalist/Chauvinists/Persian Bashing/Saddamist dead-enders)is a cheap and convenient attempt to try o mend fences. He has no interest in Iraq and couldnt care less about our Nakba.
This was such an artifical and blatantly transparent gimmick that its laughable.
If Tony wants to be taken seriously he should address Lucia'a open support of Iranian occupation of Iraq and her anti-Arab racism, and not try to gloss over these major differences by attacking pro-Saddam Iraqis.
What is this? Amateur season?
Secular Arab 09.23.08 - 9:10 pm #
Secular Arab, so you want to hook me, duh? What a cretin!
You're a very stupid guy. Really, and I mean REALLY very stupid. You'd better shut up, rather than posting those porno-tirades speaking of yourself like neon lights.
For, hadn't we already known long ago that you're a coward hiding in the enemy's barracks, it would be crystal clear by now after all the crap you posted.
Don't say again you're an iraqui because you put iraquis TO SHAME with such a detestable image.
Don't even say you're an arab because you're an EMBARRASSMENT for the arabs; you're the antithesis of an arab true man. You're the most dishonest and the most vulgar poster I've ever seen in the net in years.
Since you've been lurking or posting here under various nicks, you've insulted everyone, starting with Tony in the first place and following with anyone whose views you did not share. You're the typical zio-troll, dedicated to harassing in blogs. You're nothing but a petty mustarabim working for zion. Shame on you!
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Lucia 09.23.08 - 10:56 pm #
Lucia sweeety,
I see you have stuck on another testosterone patch today. You really should take it easy with those things. And I thought we already decided that the only people hiding behing the "Great Satan's" army are your Iranian-Sponsored friends in the green zone. They're afraid to come out because of my friends, not yours. We all remember the sectarian lynching of the President which was carried out by those hyenas you support under the protection of 5000 US soldiers. They were afraid of Saddam Hussein even with his hands tied, rope around his neck, and thousands of American soldiers standing guard protecting them. Those are YOUR friends.
As for who is an Iraqi or a "true Arab man"..well...that's not for you to decide. We will leave that for people who know the land, country, language, and people. You dont, and how arrogant of you to think you do. What sort of anti-Arab stereotype are you trying to exploit by references to manhood? Did you happen to read somewhere that such statements make Arab men upset? Was this some sort of attempt at provovation? Your ignorance, and the stereotypes you rely on in making such silly comments is revealing, not to mention amusing.
This is the only name I use as I told you before, and I stand by all I said. If you want to challenge me on anything you are welcome, but name calling does not help, but at this point your credibility is so shattered it doesn not even hurt either. Again, take it easy on the testosterone patches. I hear excessive use is harmful.
Secular Arab 09.23.08 - 11:47 pm #
Layala & the wolf
Secular Arabo,
Enta rajaloon wal rijalu qaleelu.
Lucia, hadhee sheenoo Luchia, lootia ? ghabbiya w7aya.
Agoolech Lucia, wlich entee shlon khilqa ta3bana ! lol
Layla Anwar 09.24.08 - 12:21 am #
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Layla Anwar,
w inti iraqiya min al iraqiyaat al majidaat. aseela im'asala wal asel 3urbiya.
esh nareed ingool 3an bint al-iraq?
esh nuktub? esh nitba3?
in3idha' ib-khawla wal khansa!?
bint i3raqna azyad ba3id titla3!.
you calling me a man really made me take a deep breath, hold my chest out, pull my shoulders back, make a fist and pound on my chest while I make animal noises. Thanks for rescuing me. This white "woman" almost damaged my ego.
Seriously, can you believe the stereotypes this thing basis its comments on? I think her and Tony need to make-up and attacking Iraqis is the easiest way.
Secular Arab 09.24.08 - 1:55 am #
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Layla Anwar and Secular Arab, why don't you get married
and produce a little Saddam ?
brainwave 09.24.08 - 5:39 am #
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