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Saturday, 6 August 2011

Jewish Voice for Peace? Really??

By Nahida the Exiled Palestinian




It appears that, yet again, Anti-zionist Jewish organizations are trying to silence Palestine's supporters, to frame the debate, to secure the future of their brethren in occupied Palestine and to steer the course of Liberation of our Homeland

I would invite people to hear a Palestinian voice, here:

A strategy of liberation requires emancipation

* No decent human-being would demand to live on STOLEN land and still claims to have a fiber of morality.

* No decent human-being could claim that the perpetrator should have the same rights as the victim while claiming to be a humanist.

* Palestinians are under no obligation to hold back their march for freedom, to curtail their aims or to smother their rights for the sake of accommodating and not offending their Jewish supporters.

* Palestinians are always grateful and appreciative of the hard work and dedication of all their supporters whomever they are, however, Palestinians have NO obligation to adopt the aims and objectives of the anti-zionist Jewish supporters instead of their own.

* Dismissing the Palestinian voice as radical, reactionary, intolerant, or unreasonable, and requiring instead the Jewish-anti-zionist stamp of approval to have legitimacy to speak for Palestine, is preposterous and contradicts basic concepts of human rights and does not do justice to Palestinians.

* Palestinians have the ultimate right to choose their vision for their future, of a FREE and sovereign Palestine including the type of government, the writing of constitution, the construction and implementation of their legal and juristic system, which stems from and corresponds to their ethics and reflects and protects their culture.

* Palestinians have the ultimate right to make the final decision on who is allowed to stay in liberated Palestine and who is not, using the legal procedure of their own choice.

* The future of the Palestinian struggle and the aim of liberation of Palestine should not be designed to shield the occupier from paying the full price of his crimes; including the punishment of all those who participated in transgression, and the deportation of the illegitimate Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants who colonized Palestine forcefully and were engaged in acts of aggression against Palestinians including serving in the IOF.

* All refugee and their descendents have the unconditional right to come back home, they as the rightful indigenous owners are also entitled to the reinstatement of ALL confiscated (stolen) land and property, compensation for all their losses over the many years of exile and they are also entitled to Palestinian citizenship wherever they are.

* The aims and aspirations of most Palestinians are not confined to the change of zionist regime or the vacuous declaration of abandonment of zionism by the Jewish-zionist occupiers, but rather to the FULL Liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all their rights.

* It is the privilege of Palestinians to decide who should stay in their homeland and who not.

* After a century of terror, theft and crimes; had the Zionist shown any signs of remorse, respect or willingness to be decent guests, had they embraced with open arms the hospitable people of Palestine rather than destroying them with fire-arms; they might have had a chance to be accepted and forgiven. Not any more, as far as I am concerned. They have lost that opportunity.


As a Palestinian, I see the role of any "Jewish voice for peace" who sincerely desire to contribute to the Liberation of Palestine and justice for Palestinians, and who desire to be identified through their contributions "as Jews", then their role ought to be focused on cleaning their own house before sorting other people's houses; i.e. that is to exclude any major role in influencing, leading or directing the Solidarity and/or Liberation Movement of Palestine.

Through taking a leading role in campaigning to blacklist organizations and publications, label intellectuals and limit the spectrum of debate by censoring topics which they deem "controversial"; by framing the debate they act against intellectual integrity, box Palestinians and their supporters mentally and knowingly or not act as gatekeepers. They force people to self-censorship to avoid been accused of antisemitism; hence preventing them from acquiring, sharing or discussing information freely that would allow them to make their own informed decisions.


Palestinians' grievances against the zionist theft of their land do by no means justify antisemitism accusations, Palestinians and their supporters are no lesser human beings, they are well capable to sieve through information and make their own evaluation, henceforth it is completely unacceptable that some of our anti-zionist Jewish supporters try to dictate to Palestinians:

who they should accept as a supporter and who should they boycott;

what speaker to invite and whose lecture to avoid;

who they should consider progressive and who can be labeled reactionary;

what religion and religious group are above all criticism and what faith is deemed to be "backward looking and inherently unable to deliver progress";

what books should be read, and which articles should be thrown away;

what narrative of events should be adopted as "reasonable" and which should be considered a "conspiracy theory";

what chapter of history should be seen as a "dogmatic unquestionable religion"; and which one should be seen as "hoax" or as a "useless hateful rumors";

what course of action should be taken and which one should be dismissed a "distraction";

Furthermore, when censorship is practiced, when some books become forbidden and certain speakers are silenced, it appears to any self-respecting free-thinker that their brain, their ability to analyze and evaluate are being demeaned and patronized.

Rather than wasting their energy campaigning to ostracize or silence some of the most outspoken allies and honest supporters of Palestine, they should rather direct their efforts towards their OWN communities where the rot is anchored and festering: where supremacist ideologies reign supreme, chauvinistic anti-humanist beliefs flourish, delusional concepts entrenched and fostered, and criminal Mossadic activities thrive, and where mossers are ostracized and sayanim are promoted.
This ought to be our Jewish allies' battlefield.


It is only in this specifically Jewish frame of activity, that separate organizations identified as exclusively Jewish can affect significant change and eventually their claim to speak in the name of their Jewishness be vindicated.

On the contrary, when specifically Jewish organizations or activists ubiquitously claim to be the true representative of Jewish people, or the voice of Judaism, whereas they are but a tiny, minute, insignificant and ineffective minority, and what is more an ostracized and despised minority amidst their larger Jewish communities, then these Jewish organizations by making their false claim of representing Jews or Judaism as they bravely expose Israeli crimes, are projecting nothing less than a smoke screen deflecting from the sinister racist ideology which has produced Zionism in the first place.

Is this the Jewish community? or is it this?

Since it is quite obvious that the Jewish members of organizations who claim to be Anti-Zionist, rarely are -if ever, active members of their local Jewish communities and when they try to reach out, they are generally rejected;

since they pretend that exposing the ideologies and activities of their community is a "distraction";

since they accuse of being "anti-semite" whomever questions the thriving racism and the powerful lobby within the Jewish communities and

since they fail to infiltrate the nefarious Judeo-Zionist network in order to affect real change from within:

therefore the claim that they speak for the Jewish people or Judaism is invalid, and the only reasonable consequence is to dissolve their separate "Jewish only" Anti-Zionist or Pro-Palestinian organizations, in order to become an integral part of the Solidarity Movement.

.

40 comments:

rick said...

Amen. And Palestinians shouldn't treat or let their fellow gentile supporters be treated as bigots, i.e., "anti-Semites", merely because they don't want to extend preferencial treatment to jews.

Gilad Atzmon said...

I am 100% with you!!!

Henry Herskovitz said...

Lead on, Nahida!

yogadas said...

I agree 100% with you Nahida.
This is a comment I posted on Alan Hart's blog recently/
Yes Obama is the right target. He is a man without a conscience and so would rather get a second term in office than using force if necessary to make Israel respect all the UN resolutions go back to the 1967 borders disarm them etc. His personal ambitions are worthier than Peace. He should just shut it up. Now I think it's high time to stop talking about a 2 states solution. Israel killed this option a long time ago. So a one state solution anybody? Yes indeed a Palestian State. And it will be to the People of Palestine to decide whether they allow the Israelis to stay or pack up and leave. Now if I were a Palestinian I would not allow anyone of them to remain their minds are beyond repair, redemption. No I would not want to have these war criminals who went to picnic watching the slaughter of innocent people remain in my country, no I would not want to see these children writting messages on bombs to remain in my country. Peace will prevail in the Middle East only when the last israeli will have left Palestine.

jesus arguillas said...

keep 'em coming Nahida. entirely agree with you.

friend of Khitam said...

There are several Jews going on the US Boat to Gaza at the end of June. One is my friend Henry, from Jewish Voice for Peace. He is retired now, and instead of playing golf and reading books like most retirees do, he is at this moment boarding a plane to fly to Europe to join the Stay Human Freedom Flotilla. He knows he could face Israeli attack dogs, water canons, tear gas, or be killed, but he is taking the risk to help bring justice to the people of Palestine.
Likewise, our beloved Hedy Epstein, Holocaust survivor aged 86, could be enjoying a comfortable old age at home sitting by the fire. Instead, she is travelling thousands of miles, to put herself through sleepless nights and seasickness, out of her strong desire, never again for anyone.
To criticize Jews and tell them to stop helping our Cause when they are prepared to risk their lives, is ungracious, to say the least.
My friend who lived through the Nakba and lost everything insists I go to support all Jews who speak out against Israel,even when they support a two state solution. Why? Because, she tells me, "so many in our Palestinian diaspora do nothing, we are lucky to have Jews who speak out on our behalf. Nothing would happen if left to us."
How ironic.

uprooted Palestinian said...

I have no proplem with jews speaking for Palestine such as your friend Henry,and your beloved Hedy Epstein, who live outside Palestine.

My problem is with jews, such as your beloved, I assume, such as Uri Avniri lecturing 1967 settlers to accept the 2 states solution, forgetting that once upon a time a settler in 1948 settlement, called Israel

laplandian said...

I believe it's perfectly fine to disagree with certain politics on non-preferential grounds. For example, I am an anti-Zionist Jew, an active member of the Jewish community and an anarchist. I completely reject nationalism and I believe that all states are machines of exploitation that oppress their own people. I don't believe in national ownership of any land. I think that all political entities and all borders should be demolished, without an exception, and that every person has right to live wherever one wants.

It's also perfectly reasonable to blame certain political theories for being reactionary - again, on general, non-preferential grounds. For example, capitalism and nationalism are reactionary by definition, while libertarian communism is progressive.

Theories of collective punishment are reactionary, because virtually every person on this planet is indirectly involved in some sort of class oppression. I'm sorry to tell you, but I find it quite ridiculous to expect the Jews to agree with your call to deport everyone who served in the IDF. It's equally ridiculous to deport all Palestinian who support Hamas, which is a fascist organization after all. People are being brainwashed and make mistakes - sometimes very terrible ones.

I'm not talking here from Jewish or any particular perspective. I am a radical leftist. Jewish anti-Zionist groups are usually strongly left-wing and naturally don't want to deal with right-wing nationalist groups. It's not about Jews or Palestinians. It's just the way how progressive folks organize.

Jewish, Palestinian and all workers in the world should unite against their domestic and foreign oppressors. No war but the class war! Anarchy is order!

demize! said...

100% agreement from this half Jew anarchist! I know I follow you on twitter BC I know the avatar and have been trying to find you to send some solidarity and maybe some back and forth.

demize! said...

Man I didn't fully read the comment above me. What a perfect illustration of what the author is describing. Deport those who voted for HAMAS, which is a fascist organization? While you may not agree with their politics who the hell are you to tell The Gazans who their representatives should be. You spout a lot of jargon but you don't sound like any anarcho I'd want to ally with. You sound like a typical liberal who thinks he knows better than those doing the actual struggling. O suggest you pull your head out of your rectum and get with the program son.

laplandian said...

Man, what I wrote was that it would be RIDICULOUS to suggest that those who voted for HAMAS should be deported. And it is equally ridiculous to deport all Israelis who served in the IDF and supported the occupation.

I suggest you read my posts next time by you head and not by your rectum. :-)

nahida the Exiled Palestinian said...

it would be RIDICULOUS to suggest that those who voted for HAMAS should be deported. And it is equally ridiculous to deport all Israelis who served in the IDF and supported the occupation

Those who voted Hamas are NATIVES, they BELONG to the Land

Unlike those Jewish zionist MURDERERS who “serve in the IDF, and support the occupation”, they are FOREIGN INVADERS.

They OCCUPIED the land by FORCE, they RAPED the land, they STOLE the land, and they have been committing atrocities every single day for almost a century.

Can any sane and moral person equate invaders with the native owners of Palestine who have every moral and legal right to DEFEND themselves and to RESIST the invasion and the takeover of their land and property?

Can any sane and moral person equate victims of the Holocaust with Hitler and his army Generals?


Can any sane and moral person support Equal Rights for serial killers, and for their victims ?
.

laplandian said...

Nahida, I already said that I don't believe that any land belongs to any particular ethnic or religious group. I don't recognize the difference between natives and non-natives or citizens and "illegal" immigrants. You may call it insane, if you wish, but that's the usual anarchist position.

Anyone who happened to get born in Israel, whether a Jew, an Arab, a Russian or a child of immigrant workers, is native to this land by definition.

Using your example with the Holocaust, Dresden bombing was a genocide, although most people in that city were working for Hitler's war industry. Hamas is a clerical fascist organization. Killing Israeli civilians is just as bad as the Dresden bombing. Additionally, Hamas kills and persecutes its own people for various reasons, e.g. for being gay. How is it better that Zionism?

I understand your frustration about the "framing", but I really don't believe that nationalist attitudes do any good. I personally like the approach of the organization "Combatants for Peace":

http://cfpeace.org/

exilem said...

"laplandia" hoped to land on Hasbara's lap, and instead exposed his incompetence.

Without even noticing, s/he said that it would be RIDICULOUS to suggest that those in the Warsaw Ghetto who voted to RESIST should be deported. And it is equally ridiculous to deport all Nazis who served in the SS and supported the occupation. Ouch!

LIBERATION will happen no matter what. LIBERATION is followed by Courts of Law in which the ATROCITIES committed by occupiers are exposed, put on trial and given harshest sentences often summarily executed. What is more, personal acts of vengeance do inevitably happen during and after a LIBERATION, and this by the hands of the relatives of the VICTIMS of atrocities. Who would blame a mother and a father for beating to a pulp the butcher of their small children?

To anyone who has ever been associated with the occupation entity "Israel" by supporting it from inside or outside, or by wearing its uniform, and who has NOT unambiguously and virulently rejected 'Israel" and turned their back to it, i say beware of the time to come.

nahida the Exiled Palestinian said...

laplandian

Would you please give me your home address. I would like to come and move in and take over your house.

I will be not be very cruel like your beloved Jewish zionist brethren, I will allow you to buy a tent and put it outside so you are not in the street

Is that OK?

Thought your agreement is not actually necessary or needed, I just can do that without your consent, according to your Skewed logic!!

.

laplandian said...

The correct version should be:

It would be RIDICULOUS to suggest that those in the Warsaw Ghetto, who supported an organization that advocates killing civilian Germans and its own Jews for various reasons, should be deported.

Well, yes, it would be quite ridiculous, would it?

Although, killing civilian Germans is wrong even during war. No person in sane mind denies the Palestinian right to resist. But a reasonable organization would resist against soldiers, state officials, police, etc. Hamas kills civilians on both sides in order to maintain a fascist regime. As I asked, how is better that Zionism? In fact, Hamas was created by the Zionists and uses Zionist logic.

The second part:

And it is equally ridiculous to deport all Nazis who served in the Wehrmacht and supported the occupation. Yes, Wehrmacht is the adequate equivalent, not SS.

It would be quite ridiculous too, would it? 400,000 Poles served in the Wehrmacht, but the Soviet indiscriminate persecution of those soldiers was, indeed, also a crime.

Ouch or not, I try to be a consistent internationalist. I don't see any reason to hate all those Germans who happened to serve in the Nazi army - unless they directly committed war crimes - or not to let the Germans live today in Russia, for example.

laplandian said...

Nahida, I wouldn't let you to take over my house, but you are welcome to move in, so we can share it and establish a little commune. :-)

Zionists are not my "beloved brethren". My beloved brethren is the working class, regardless of religion and ethnicity, and my enemy is the ruling classes and nationalists, also regardless of religion and ethnicity.

Very simple. No war but the class war. Ethnicity is nothing, class struggle is everything.

uprooted Palestinian said...

"Would you please give me your home address. I would like to come and move in and take over your house."

You, if not you,your father already did it, took her house, my house, the houses of all uprooted palestinians, many of them are refugee in there own land.
You and your working Class brother may go to hell.
Get out of Palestine.

laplandian said...

Are you telling it to me?!

First, I have never been in Palestine and I am not eligible for Zionist citizenship anyway. But I am a proud Irish citizen. :-)

Second, my father is not Jewish and does not give a damn neither about the Jews nor about the uprooted Palestinians. But I identify myself as an anti-Zionist Jew, because it's fun. :-)

I better go now to a pub and get my few shots of Jameson and a pints of Guiness or two.

Bye bros, it was fun talking to you. :-)

demize! said...

Well you should more appropriately identify as an idiot and poseur, because you have boldly stated that you don't believe in nationality but have alternately identified as "Jewish" and "Irish" only to say that you where masquerading as one "because it's fun". What difference is your father's ethnicity Judaism is Matralinial, my father is gentile. I personally don't like to identify as an antizio-jew because what does being a Jew have to do with it? I oppose Zionism because it is an evil and racist system. I only identified as such in my first comment to show solidarity. I think Nahida made an important point in showing how displays of Jewish antizionism provide cover for Zionism, similar to one dissident congressman tolerated in each of our parties in the us. See "we have a diversity of opinion" when in reality there is monolithic opinion on what counts, oppressing everyone except their class.

nahida the Exiled Palestinian said...

demize!

It is so wonderful and refreshing to see decent human beings around.

Those who "Stand out firmly for justice, even as against themselves, their parents, or their kin, and whether it be against rich or poor" as described in the Qur'an(4:135)

I salute you brother in humanity and welcome you to our home of exile. Until We Return.

.

laplandian said...

Demize!, you misunderstood me. I don't believe that ethnicity or religion should play any serious role in social relationships. I reject the notion of nation (which is not the same as ethnic identity) as a myth constructed by the state. However, I perfectly recognize people's right to self-identify with certain ethnicity or tradition.

I am not a poseur. Once upon the time, I studied in a very Orthodox Jewish environment associated with the Neturei Karta movement, and I do know quite a lot about Jewish anti-Zionism.

I am simultaneously Jewish, Russian and Irish. My ethnic background is more colorful than you think, but I don't want to go into details here.

uprooted Palestinian said...

You wrote: "I don't believe that ethnicity or religion should play any serious role in social relationships."

IF SO WHY YOU CALL YOURSELF A JEW??
BTW, SINCE YOU HAVE JEWISH ROOTS AND LIVED IN Jewish environment, can you tell me: WHATS A JEW??
As far as I know, to be a Jew you should have a Jewish mother.
IF so who is the first Jewish mother?

nahida the Exiled Palestinian said...

laplandian

"People" who come here to spread their hasbara lies against Hamas, and to attack the steadfast Palestinian Resistance, while at the same time defend the supremacist genocidal chabad and cover up the deceitful work their anti-zionist Jewish brethren, are not welcome on this forum, there are myriad of hate-websites that caters for your comments.

And if you come here to "have fun", you sure are in the wrong place also, and your "fun" will be cut short, as your comments will not be published, so don't bother writing them.

peace.

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exilem said...

"laplandia" What a shlemil, and how pathetically transparent they are, these narcissistic impostors who confuses lies and dishonesty with intelligence and consistency. For someone like that, the boot is all what he deserves.

There is absolutely no point to have a dialogue with liars and tricksters.

I would recommend to bar this hijacker from these premises, which is anyway what he tries to provoke, so give him this favor.

I am too lazy to deconstruct that sack of misrepresentation and odious lies, but just a few for the record:

"an active member of the Jewish community"
VS
"I am not eligible for Zionist citizenship"
and
"I identify myself as an anti-Zionist Jew, because it's fun"

etc etc. Poor schmuck obviously has difficulties with his own identity.

If one can read through his megalo-narcissistic blather, which i can not bring myself to do, he finds identitarian nonsense, destined to blur confuse everything. For example he says "Jewish, Palestinian, and all workers...." May be this creep ought to learn first that "Palestinian" does not refer to a religion, while "Jewish" is just that and only that, whether they like it or not.

And then all the FAKE anarchist sweet talk!
"Anyone who happened to get born in Israel, whether a Jew, an Arab, a Russian or a child of immigrant workers, is native to this land by definition"
VS
"I don't believe that any land belongs to any particular ethnic or religious group. I don't recognize the difference between natives and non-natives"
May be someone can one day knock the reality into this knuckelhead, that his opinion doesn't matter, and that there is such a thing as "self-determination" and that it is very different from his "self-identity" which doesn't correspond to anything.

etc etc etc.

Then the historical distortions, twisting and litterally false statements destined to modify the perception and play his dirty game:

"...Hamas is a clerical fascist organization" and "Hamas kills and persecutes its own people for various reasons" etc etc The gall, the dishonesty! Hamas is a RESISTANCE force, who does its best to avoid civilian casualties, and who has barely any weaponry, compared to the 4th army in the world! The IDF and occupation force does commit terrorism since the arrival of the first zionist in Palestine, and to this day, and this terrorism goes across the board of Jewish organizations. But of course our little creep-du-jour prefers to talk about Hamas and disseminate his old and worn lies. Hamas does not perpetrate false-flag operations, Hamas does not use illegal weaponry or WMD, Hamas has no nuclear bombs or submarine, and more over, Hamas is the democratically elected government, so get lost mister "laplandia"

The cherry on the pie is always the same argument, which can be deconstructed in a heartbeat. "Hamas was created by the Zionists and uses Zionist logic" blah blah blah

But what is more, this despicable individual meddles a few civilian accidental casualties of a Resistance force and equates it with the wanton destruction of a whole City (Dresden) and the killing of its citizens per use of thousands of airplanes, at a time when WW2 was already won! How more dishonest can one be? And besides what in the hell does Dresden has to do with Palestine and Palestinians ? Nothing.

And then the tricks, "i said that, i didn't say that" while every sentence is an vile insinuation destined to confuse! This modus operandi is archetypal Rabbinical deceit mechanism, which is "laplandia" s signature.

etc etc

And how dare this ignoramus tell anyone what is the right analogy? For the record, the Warsaw ghetto was not evacuated by the Wehrmacht, but by the SS, hence my analogy was 100% accurate, and it is dishonest to twist around his own words.

yuk.

exilem said...

And i won't go into the poisonous soup this creep-du-jour tried to serve here, trying to discredit Naturei Karta, trying to white-wash Chabad-Lubavitchers.

and on and on and on.

My opinion is that there are enough other venues for these creeps to propagate their lies, while Uprooted Palestinians has no need to be the victim of such deceit and pollution.

Conclusion: get him out, is my advice to the website owner.

.

uprooted Palestinian said...

exlim

I am quite busy to spoil my energy in fruitless arguements with laplandian likes,
I thought its better to put the discussion on the right track and was sure laplandian would leave by himself, to avoid answering tough questions, instead of leaving as a "victim"

Therefore I asked him:

Whats a Jew, and who is the first jewish mother?

I never got a satifactory answer for the second question.
Once upon a time, a jew claimed that Sara was a the Fist Jewish mother, so I asked again how come she is a Jew without a jewish mother, to conclude that if there is a first jewish mother, it should be Eve,

Consequently, all humans according to the jewish law are Jews, which is not the case. non-jews, goyem are animals created in human form to please the eyes of the master race.

I am pointing to the root of the Jewish racism,jewish identity,and in general the Jewish culure.

This arguement may explain, the problem of jews for peace, jews for justice, low calory zionists and so called anti-zionist jews trying to put the blame on zionism, and the problem of some palestinian activist calling for two state solution and sharing the land in one state solution, forgeting that the our real problem (The problem of hunanity)is not with the jews as persons, its with the jewish culture, dividing the jews into self-loving jews (an overwhelming majority and fews self-haiting jews.

laplandian said...

Uprooted Palestinian,

I got enough disgusting slurs on this forum and wanted to leave, but since you asked:

Traditionally, a Jews must have either Jewish mother or to be a convert to Judaism. Conversion to Judaism used to be very easy in some places at different periods of time, especially for women. Ashkenazi Jews are, to a large degree, descendants of Celts, Slavs and other European groups, who converted en masse during the Antiquity and in the Middle Ages. Yemenian Jews are, to a large degree, descendants of Arab converts, who converted in pre-Islamic times. Georgian Jews are descendants of ethnic Georgians, etc. I don't believe in Khazarian theory of Ashkenazi ancestry. I personally think that today's European Jews are half-Celts.

I seems that in Biblical times anyone who was raised by Jews or joined the Jewish faith was considered Jewish and Jewishness was transmitted primarily by the father and not by the mother. Judaism teaches that Abraham, Sarah and other founders of Judaism had self-converted.

No Jew in sane mind believes that non-Jews are animals created to please the Jews. Only a small minority of ultra-Orthodox Jews see it this way. Some people in Chabad don't see it this ways, though many do, unfortunately. The Talmud does contain very derogatory remarks about idolators, but they don't apply to Muslims (by almost all opinions, except a couple very marginal ones), to Christians (by many opinions) and to all decent human beings, including those who practice polytheistic religions (by a few, but very notable rabbinical opinions).

Neither Orthodox Judaism in general nor Hasidic Judaism is racist. Some groups are, unfortunately, while some are strongly and actively anti-racist. The most staunchly "self-loving Jews", known as Neturei Karta, are very pro-Palestinian and are against Zionist racism. At least one prominent 12th century Orthodox Rabbi, Natanel al-Fayyumi, believed that Muhammad was a true prophet, albeit one who was sent to Arabs and not the Jews. His writings are remarkably pro-Islamic and anti-racist. Judaism is very diverse, like every other major religion. You can find everything, from fascism to anti-fascism to liberalism to socialism.

I hope I answered your questions. I am really tired of this antisemitic site and don't want to talk here anymore.

uprooted Palestinian said...

As expected you haven't, my question was not about judaism. it was about Jews. I asked: whats a jew? and who is the first jewish mother,
I know about converts, called Jers.
may be they are considered semi humans???

Hovever,thanks for admitting that nowadays jews are not the sons of Israel, which undermine jewish right of return.

By the way the true sons of Israel are the arab natives who turned to christianity and Islam, besides some who remained jews and lived in peace.

As you are tired "really tired of this antisemitic site and don't want to talk here anymore."
I would say: Bye Bye

humanbeingsfirst said...

Palestine The Enemy Within: Response to 'Jewish Voice for Peace? Really??'

Zahir Ebrahim | Project Humanbeingsfirst.org

Friday, July 1, 2011

Malcolm X's views on separation from his oppressor's race are well known among those who study him, and poorly understood by others who have merely heard of them in relation to Reverend Martin Luther King's penchant for integration with the White Man. The views expressed in the article 'Jewish Voice for Peace? Really??' by Nahida the Exiled Palestinian, echo a poignantly similar theme to the motivations for separation espoused by Malcolm X.

Malcolm X's opinion was of course rooted in his strong sense of tribalism which he feared existed among the White Man and whom he perceived were collectively the oppressors of the black man. He noted in one of his speeches that: “We must have separation in order to be equal, we must have separation in order to have freedom, we must have separation in order to have justice.” He observed elsewhere in an interview, of the integration efforts through non-violence by Dr. Martin Luther King: “The white man pays Rev. Martin Luther King. Subsidizes Rev. Martin Luther King. So that Rev. Martin Luther King can continue to teach the negroes, to be defenseless. That's what you mean by non-violence. Be Defenseless. Be Defenseless in the face of one of the most cruel beast that has ever taken a people into captivity. That is this American white man.” If one studies the Autobiography of Malcolm X, it is plain that his thoughts were very tribal. He moved from one tribal scheme to another as his metanoia progressed, until he performed the Hajj, when his own clinging tribe advanced from the black man to the one billion plus Muslims.

In their article on “The Role of Jews in the Palestinian Solidarity Movement” in Counterpunch of April 26, 2011, Herskovitz and Kinnucan examined the impact of Malcolm X's tribalism upon the issue of Palestine resistance. They observed in their article that after Malcolm X returned from his “epiphanic trip to Mecca”, he was asked if White people could join his Organization of Afro-American Unity, and he replied:

“They can't join us. ...”

Herskovitz and Kinnucan further observed of Malcolm X:

'He added that by working separately, Whites and Blacks would form a successful collective. "Working separately, the sincere white people and the sincere black people actually will be working together."

The words of this fighter for justice are valid 46 years later in another context: Defining the role of Jews in the Palestine solidarity movement. The lesson is that sincere Jews should not play leading roles in the Palestinian solidarity movement, but should instead expose and challenge the racism that exists in their own Jewish communities. So what are Jewish-led and Jewish-identified groups and leaders doing? Certainly, they criticize atrocities committed by Israel in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, but are they clearly defining their positions? Do they oppose Jewish supremacism, as some opposed White supremacism in South Africa during the 1980s? Which of the higher profile Jewish-led and Jewish-identified groups are demanding an end to a Jewish state and full and immediate return for displaced Palestinians and their descendents?'

The sub-text of Nahida's article is based on the same principles of racial tribalism. Nahida evidently fears the same of the Jews as Herskovitz and Kinnucan, just like Malcolm X feared of the White Man.

My response article presents a counterpoint by openly stating the obvious. That unfortunately, empiricism indicates that Palestinians, both Muslim and Christian, can be no less tribal than the Jews.

If interested, please read the rest here:

Source URL: http://print-humanbeingsfirst.blogspot.com/2011/07/palestine-enemy-within-by-zahirebrahim.html

Thank you,
Zahir Ebrahim

exilem said...

Dear Zahir Ebrahim,


Seeing your name in the comments, I expected an astute and eloquent observation, but for once you went not only off topic, but your remarks are erroneous, to say the least. According to you suddenly aggressors and aggressed are all the same, I..e. motivated by the same tribal self-interest. My first thought was that this is an impostor, then I discovered it was not, my second reaction was to wonder why Zahir Ebrahim was morphing into a sort of Mary Rizzo, Kawther Salam, Tony Greenstein, etc... !


I have no intention to enter with you in a fruitless debate, just a few observations:


The articulation between Malcolm X and M.L. King is not only historically, but also contextually and literally disconnected and radically different from the atrocious, genocidal Occupation of Palestine, and the atrocities committed on its people whether inside Palestine or the Refugees outside. So please, as a Historian let me tell you that Empiricism can not be drawn like a trump-card in a vanity game.


The most obvious and most fundamental difference between the Historical Population of Palestine, and an incongruous faked Nation “The” Jews, is that the first Population is oppressed, its civilization under the bulldozer of total annihilation, while the acts of the latter Fake Nation are permanent and heinous Aggression aiming at total destruction and conquest, with a systematic modus operandi that includes hijacking of systems of power, incitement of racial and religious hatred, permanent conflict, eradication of World Heritage, etc, overall and endless list of Crimes Against Humanity.


Not only have you failed to answer Nahida's specific arguments with regard to their methods of layered participation to this modus operandi, but more surprisingly, you participate to the old split and conquer.


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exilem said...

Instead of addressing her concerns that Judeo-centrists are hijacking the struggle against the heinous oppressor in order to steer the struggle toward serving their own narrow tribal interest, and censoring the Oppressed, you went onto stating outlandish falsehoods by adhering to the main-stream reasoning that we are all the same and one is as tribal as the other. I am just surprised you haven't added “Kumbaya let's just all hug and peace will emerge”


Contrary to your insinuations, Arab culture is precisely humanist to a fault, addressing less the singular interest than the common interest. Everyone who knows Arab culture and ideals, knows that the notions of sharing, of Justice, of modesty, more egalitarian, more respectful of the “other” etc. The fact that every group does first defends its own sons and daughters, is human nature, not “tribalism”.


In every corner of Jewishness, are the signs of ideological and practical refusal to accept the civilizational principles of sharing, of common interest. Talmud and Kabbalah both aim to bring out the singular against the universal. And that goes all across the spectrum, as their secular intellectuals also go to great great length to undermine the pillars of civilization, like Wladimir Jankelevitch hammering to destroy the concept of altruism.

Self-interest and exclusion, as well as conquest through deceit, have become the trademarks of Jewishness. “Tribalism” is like Nationalism, it is aggression and war.


Arabs and Muslims are currently the victim of a vast slow genocide, and that includes the Palestinians. While you smear Arabs by equating them to the Jewish deviance from humanity, you viciously omit to take notice that Jews are the driving force behind this unconscionable reality, and that Arabs have not committed any aggression in several centuries.


Lastly, Nahida points to a very disturbing reality, that many Jews whether Zionist, anti-Zionist, crypto-Zionist, secular, religious, are animated by the same self-interest and use the same methods of deceit.


You on the other hand, meddle the reality, and confuse the reader, and that makes you a servant to the self-serving aggressor, who is an enemy of Civilization.


Dear Zahir, if you desire to join the enemy of Arabs, Muslims that is your right, but by doing so you de facto join the enemy of Humanity.

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exilem said...

for Zahir Ebrahim, an Addendum

an excerpt of your own writing in 2010:

quote:
"See my essay which has already deconstructed the convoluted theologies of the so called “soft Zionists” who ostensibly support the Palestinians for an hypothetical severely emasculated “Palestinian state” carved out of their own vast indigenous homeland gratuitously gifted away to the Jews; who boldly speak-out against the Israeli aggression; who at times even longingly speak of an hypothetical binational state, which some progressive Zionists today also pitch as “onestate” without fully explaining the semantics of what they actually mean by it – and it invariably does not include Palestinian refugees returning home; but all the while making continuous fools of the victims with red herrings a plenty in the best mold of “beneficial cognitive diversity” to buy time until realities on the ground become impractical to reverse. Then, they glibly claim that the realities on the ground are impractical to reverse!"
end quote

I spare the reader of the beginning of this same article, i wish not to embarrass you more, since a minimum modicus of consistency is required for any set of opinion to gain some credibility. Whilst the paragraph quoted in essence states the same as what Nahida exposes, other parts of the quoted piece vaticinates in all direction, and waddles into their opposites just as much, probably lost in translation.

nahida the Exiled Palestinian said...

Zahir Ebrahim missed the point entirely, because I was not at all arguing for primitive tribalistic separation, but the radical contrary, namely, I merely pointed out the exclusivist nature of some of ant-zionist Jewish organizations, and the separatists exclusionary schemes applied and enforced by Jewish (only) group, upon which they take unilateral decisions to affect the strategy or the tactics and steer the direction of the solidarity movement.

We have seen this clearly from the example of attempting, unilaterally, to exclude and silence Helen Thomas, and many more outspoken individuals like Gilad Atzmon, Paul Eisen, Israel Shahak, Israel Shamir and frankly any one who they happen to disapprove of, or disagree with; i.e anyone who dares to go all the way in their support of Palestinian rights, or who are brave enough to question the supremacist ideology or the disproportionate influence and excessive authority exerted by the Jewish-zionist lobby on global scale.

Hysterically, and in not much different techniques from the zionists they throw the anti-Semitic, self-hatred card against people whom they disapprove of, they even almost practice though-control, by making others feel guilty if they read of or listen to those “controversial” figures.

They use the very same methods of character assassination, threats of legal action, excommunicating, and ostracizing, (which I find rather shocking) claiming that such people are not good for Palestine or the Palestinian cause (which I find rather condescending and patronizing) .

My article was not a tribalistic call, far from it, rather it implicitly called for; the removal of these tribalistic separatist authoritarian tendencies and methods of exclusion and ostracizing.

What I called for also is that if they insist in keeping the title “Jewish” as the identification for their organizations, then their best role is to go inside their own communities and try to claim-back that title from those dark supremacist forces that have hijacked their voices and manipulated the Jewish masses to make the majority support crimes of theft, murder and genocide within their own their communities.

If they are unable or unwilling to do that they should open themselves up and integrate into, not separate from, the larger solidarity movement simply because they can no longer continue the bogus and delusional claim that they are the true representative of the Jewish people, when in fact they are nothing but a tiny, ineffective minority who cannot be compared or compete neither in numbers nor in influence nor in finance with the rich and powerful in their communities.

One more point: Is it so difficult to comprehend that organizations or individuals linked (by emotions or kinship) to an oppressor, are UNFIT to LEAD the revolt or to determine the course of action of those seeking Liberation?


As for your disappointment with Palestinians and their leadership; with your involvement with the cause, I don't think it's difficult to miss the fact that our oppressors use repugnant tactics of assassination and elimination which used against Palestinian leadership; potential leaders who have the qualities are SYSTEMATICALLY targeted and eradicated.

...

nahida the Exiled Palestinian said...

Talking about Palestinians,the "erudite" Mr. Zahir Ebrahim claims:

"Diaspora living a safe and often bountiful existence can be no less contemptuous (perhaps that's too strong a word – use your euphemism to taste) of their brethren on ground zero and in refugee camps than the Ashkenazi are of Sephardim"


Here Mr Ebrahim, you've gone too far!

This is beyond despicable actually.

How dare you accuse Palestinians of the same Ashkenazi supremacy and racism?

You have exposed yourself as someone who actually know nothing about the Palestinian society or the dynamics of the social structure within than society.

Have you any idea that Palestinians who are inside Palestine, or in exile or in refugee camps are interconnected through family relationships? relatives might be in refugee camps, while others family members might be in occupied Palestine and others scattered around the world, wherever circumstances allows them, which is exactly my case, and the case of EVERY Palestinian that I know.

Don't you realize that exiled Palestinians are the saving grace and the rope of hope and survival of those less fortunate amongst them, and without their financial, political and emotional support, Palestinians inside couldn't have sustained their resistance for that long?


Do you have any clue of what you are blathering about?


What would you claim next?

that maybe "the root of the "conflict" is that because Palestinians are anti-semites who are no less tribalistic and genocidal than the Ashkenazis and they want to exterminate all the Jew?"

Or maybe that "Palestinians are no less supremacists than the Ashkenazis, for they too claim to have divine souls and claim to be the creators of the universe"?

Shame Mr. Ebrahim... Shame!

.
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Hasan said...

This might be reopening this debate, but I read this post and was very happy to see an altering perspective on an organization that I am a part of. I do want to respond to this post from an alternative Jewish perspective on what I interpret Jewish Voices for Peace attempting to do for Jews here in the United States.

My name is Hasan Bhatti. I am the son of a Jewish mother and a Pakistani Muslim father. I identify as "Jewish" on official forms because the courts and powers that be placed my in my mother's care instead of my father's. Religiously, however, I'm a meld of Jewish ritual, Buddhist meditative practices, Hindu love, and Islam (in the few months that I've been talking to my father about incorporating this religion into my identity). As you can guess, their divorce enmeshed me not only into their parental split, but a drive to understand why two people, in general, cannot find a mutually beneficial future.

As a kid in Hebrew school, I was taught one way to see the world: the Zionist way. I ate it up, cause what else are you to do when you're 9-10 years old? You follow the hands that feed you. I admit that Jews within my community here in North Carolina and the US are often naive when it comes to Israel, and I have known this since I went there at age 16 on a Zionist program, and witnessed Palestinians being silenced simply on what they thought. This to me is wrong, and combined with the parental conflict I grew up with, it has infused a drive in me to try and devote my life to understanding how to find cooperative peace along the voice of everyone involved. I believe it to be completely possible to appease two conflicting forces at the same time.

I've studied the history on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict since I was 9 years old, and when I say that, I mean I've been doing it trying to understand it from all sides instead of one. I regularly read al-jazeera as well as the new york times and the real news when it comes to any sources of information considering the Israel/Palestine region. I've taken a balanced class on the Israeli-Palestinian class from a reputable professor who actively does research in the area, has Hamas, PLO, and Knesset contacts as well as those from the grassroots. From these experiences, I continue to believe my path to end up doing on the ground work in some form to try and contribute some form of peace and reconciliation to a conflict that has taken too many lives already.

But I have two problems that inhibit me from being able to pursue this dream:

1) I am young. I am only 23 and recently graduated. Unfortunately, our world grants its power to those with degrees, and despite my passion, given the difficult economy, I am unemployed and living at home.

2) I live in the United States. I acknowledge that this brings with it much privilege, and I acknowledge that this brings with it a skewed perspective on life in a land that I feel passionate about. I attempt all the time to talk to those that are in Israel and those that are in Palestine to try to understand the situation from their perspective (such as Nahida), but the sad reality is, I live a comfortable life right now, and I'm discomforted by it.

Hasan said...

Thank you for so far indulging in what I've said. I know that right now the question you're asking is "ok you like peace/hearing people talk about the conflict, so what?"

The so what is this: without my involvement Jewish Voices for Peace after I graduated from college, I would not have an outlet to help me fight against my community's unjust curriculum in the schools, nor would I have an outlet to continue my idealism in holding Israel and the US accountable for their unjust policies regarding Palestine. I would not have an outlet to talk to other activists and feel confirmed in my discomfort of simultaneously loving the Israeli/Palestinian land (whichever you decide to call it-- to me it's immaterial what it's called; it's a land that is loved) and hating the fact that in order for Israel (I do mean Israel here) to exist, it must push out the population that lived there before. In the US, people shit on you if you don't have something to drive you, and when someone tacks down your ideals, it's hard to keep them going. JVP has been a current to help me keep these ideals and to help me personally have the drive to, each day, continue to go outside of my comfort zone and read blogs and perspectives that drastically differ from my own opinion or vantage point so as to better understand how I can be an ALLY to helping this situation come to a close.

I value what you have said in this post, Nahida, and I respect your viewpoint with regards to Jewish organizations who claim to be for peace and justice but do not go that extra mile, or do not truly embrace what Palestinians feel. Thank you for sharing your perspective, and I want you to know that you have great insight and balance to your insight. I do not wish, with this comment, to shift your opinion or make you feel as if this insight is flawed. I simply wanted to add my own perspective and life trajectory to perhaps add a little bit of personalization to what some of the Jewish anti-Zionist organizations can mean to those that are currently trying to believe in good forces, when it tears me apart to be associate with the Israeli state. I might be a Jew, yes, but above all, I see myself as a human being living on planet Earth, just like you. JVP is not a catch all for a particular type of Jew, and it tries not to be-- it tries to encourage Jews to see outside of AIPAC, outside of their Zionist upbringing, and see humane peace, humane justice. Through my involvement with JVP, I've met a lot of confused people like me, trying to figure out how to act upon, or resolve, this feeling of deep internal anger and sadness of our love and hate at our *unfortunate* association to Israel through the human race and through religion.

I want to also perhaps suggest that JVP is not a perfect organization. In terms of United States the anti-AIPAC and anti-Zionist movement, JVP is very much still in its infancy, attempting to stand up and walk. As with every growing organization, it still has a lot of flaws in the way it approaches the conflict, and each day, JVP faces the insecurity of our movement's sustainability within a truly heinous and unjust US political climate.

Thanks for all who read this comment, and I hope that anyone who is interested could perhaps contact me (hasan.bhatti327@gmail.com) to trade perspectives at some point. I'd be very happy to hear what you have to say, and I will value your opinion, asking questions of you to understand rather than to criticize.

Hasan Bhatti

nahida -Exiled Palestinian said...

Dear Hasan

(btw, my son is also called Hassan, and he is a only few years older than you)

Thank you very much for your honest response, it's refreshing to come across genuine open-minded people who refuse to be imprisoned by whatever indoctrination they were exposed to or emotional attachment they may have.

I have worked along, discussed, debated with and read the work of many Jewish people, some of my closest friends are also from Jewish background, so with all modestly, I can say that I have reasonable insight into the perspective that you are coming from. I appreciate the hurdles that you have to cross in order to be at the side of humanity and justice.

It sure is not easy to stand at odds with one's "tribe", let alone when members of that tribe has been indoctrinated from a very young age that the whole world is full of inexplicable intrinsic hatred against them, and that it is hell bent on exterminating every member of that tribe, had it not been for "miraculous divine protection" and the "resilience" and "superb qualities" of that tribe.

Furthermore, it is not easy to step outside the walls of indoctrination that instills in the tiny innocent human beings the inexplicable sense of difference, elitism, and distinction.

The constant hammering of: "us" and "them", the "eternal suffering" of the tribe, the victim-hood mentality, the constant fear of persecution, the blind "world-hatred", and the immanent threat of a coming new holocaust around the corner, all this psychological manipulations creates an invisible wall that keeps members of the tribe in check and makes sure they never cross the line.

I appreciate that breaking away from this inner and invisible Ghetto is not easy, but it's not impossible either; indeed it requires a huge reserve of courage, integrity and immense respect for principles of morality, justice and humanity, and that is doable.

I sense the sincerity in you Hassan, and the desire to choose what is right, therefore I would invite you to persevere and to read my articles which I hope would give you another perspective.

It is a journey, not an easy one for sure, in fact, it will be very painful, it might generate anger, rage and resentment, and at some moments it might even be world-shattering, but without a doubt, the result will be liberating and the journey is worth it.

The falling down of the Ghetto walls would open the mind and the soul to an irreplaceable, refreshing, and extraordinarily beautiful horizon.
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exilem said...

Dear Hasan

Your quest goes to your credit.

To the effect of making your trajectory a personal one, there is the matter of simplicity.

Before the Zionist invasion and their subsequent terrorist state, Palestine was the Holy Land, admired around the world for its peace, serenity, beauty and social cohesion. Muslims, Jews, Christians and whomever else were living in harmony together. I would guess you know that.

The Zionist occupation of Palestine, has been initiated by supremacists who considered Ethnic Cleansing as an appropriate method to conquer land. Then it has been implemented by terrorism and destruction of Biblical villages and the dispossession of its indigenous, peaceful population. Further in time, the occupiers became not less violent and barbaric, but more cruel, more destructive of the land and its history, more genocidal against its residual indigenous population.

These are facts, Hasan. Israeli Jews are all, every single one of them, participating actively in the most barbaric, belligerent, terrorist, criminal and morally depraved activities you can imagine, even by doing nothing but being there, because they are simply living on stolen lands.

If what you say of yourself is true and authentic, then only one alternative logically opens itself to you:

You must rescind “Israel” and reject affiliation with anyone supporting it.

If you really love the land, then you must stand firmly against this entity which was created by terror right from its inception, and continues worse than ever.

Loving the land does not give any people whomever they are the right to dispossess its inhabitants... loving the land does not mean destroying it and slowly assassinating its indigenous inhabitants.

I presume you have traveled in occupied Palestine, what your brethren call “Israel”. Have you seen the destuction of the landscape which the Palestinians had lovingly modeled for thousands of years?? Have you seen the abusive, depletive use of water and ressources ?? Have you seen the atrocious conditions Palestinians are forced into, like nazi ghettos?? Have you seen the racism, the awful settlements, the environmental catasrophe, the violence, the militarization, the lack of harmony, the hatred, the utter crime against nature and people ??

A crime is a crime is a crime. To say “kumbaya let's all have a hug” won't solve anything, because of the murderous and depraved motives of Judeo-centric networks who have created a synergy of hate and separation from the rest of humanity, using it, abusing it. Their malevolence has become epidemic.

In the end, Jews worldwide will have to recognize that this is the sole salvation for themselves and Judaism: rescind Israel, pay compensation for Palestinians and the destruction of the land.

Imagine for a moment, Palestine Liberated, and also for what concerns you, Jews liberated of that monster rotten dog that is “Israel” and “Israelis”...

Imagine the peace.... Imagine Palestinians going back to their land, and healing it of its horrific wounds.

If you really love the land of Palestine, you would fight for its Liberation, just as you would fight for the Liberation of the person you love, were she held captive and tortured.

Lastly, Palestinian Culture is reputed for its hospitality. Whomever comes in peace, and embraces Palestine, embraces its culture, is certainly welcome. Criminals on the other hand, belong to courts, and if found guilty, are subjected to whatever sentence the Palestinian Judicial system will consider fit.

For your personal trajectory, Hasan, it is your prerogative to chose: Either act for a better future by looking upwards, or stagnate in the bloody present by circling the drain.

Arikcarlo said...

How about Uprooted Jews from Arab Lands?

How is it right that Uprooted Palestinians should demand that righteous Israelis pull up their stakes and leave Israel to Palestinians while Jews booted out of Arab lands, or forced indirectly to do so, should be totally ignored?

When an Egyptian Jew who had his property and assets robbed from him by the Egyptian Government (as an example)and then was booted out, is welcomed, has his property and assets returned, then Uprooted Palestinians can begin to dream about what righteous Israelis should do.

What makes Uprooted Palestinians think Uprooted Egyptian, or Syrian or Iraqi Jews were less broken hearted in exile and loss than Palestinian refugees?

Before the expectation that Israelis turn over their house keys to Uprooted Palestinians, they'd better remember that old saying, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander".